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> in Spain > Just as you say, we didn't have a past of slavery Spain (together with Portugal) were the first to invent "put people in boats and ship them acro

by vasco 4y ago

> in Spain > Just as you say, we didn't have a past of slavery Spain (together with Portugal) were the first to invent "put people in boats and ship them across the Atlantic" type of slave trade and had large numbers of slaves in their colonies. And as with all other European countries that had big boats, they also brought many slaves back to Spain itself. For hundreds of years. Also calling blackface "practical because there are no black people around" is missing the point of why people don't like blackface. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Spain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Spain

hoseja 4y ago
The only innovation there is the "Atlantic" part. Stop pretending like it was something new and uniquely horrible.
- ben_w 4y ago
  I think the criticism here is that Iberian history is not uniquely better rather than claiming it's uniquely worse. (I'm British, so I'm not going to claim less-awful-than-thou against any nation).
- vasco 4y ago
  If you agree with that innovation, you also seem to agree with me that the spanish were in fact involved with slavery, as opposed to what the person I replied to said. Not sure where you saw me "pretend" about anything, I just presented facts and a wikipedia article.
Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
Yeah, my wording was definitely too general. There was slavery in Spain, my intended meaning was that there was no systematic enslavement of black people but there is definitely a chasm between what was in my brain and what I actually wrote, so I stand corrected. Regarding blackface, what do you suggest to do, then, if there is a tradition of someone portraying a character (whom children believe in) that happens to be black, if there are no black people at all to do it?
- foldr 4y ago
  From the Wikipedia article linked above: >By the 16th century, 7.4 percent of the population in Seville, Spain were slaves. Many historians have concluded that Renaissance and early-modern Spain had the highest amount of African slaves in Europe As for what to do about blackface characters, the simplest solution is just to portray them differently. I believe this is gradually becoming a more popular option in the Netherlands, which has a similar problem with Zwarte Piet: https://raffia-magazine.com/2020/12/02/outgrowing-zwarte-piet-turning-a-racist-past-into-an-inclusive-future/ https://raffia-magazine.com/2020/12/02/outgrowing-zwarte-pie...
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Do you have as an example of where applying dark coloured make-up to anyone of a European background to make them look exotic/foreign doesn't also look completely ridiculous (and inevitably somewhat insulting)? And yes I'd include "Zwarte Piet". If you're putting on a performance where it's crucial that the audience identifies a particular character as African (or Moorish) then find a performer who can convincingly and respectfully pull it off sans make-up, or adapt the plot to what you have available. I gather that's what's done for the part of Othello for at least 30 years now at any rate.

by vasco 4y ago

hoseja 4y ago

The only innovation there is the "Atlantic" part. Stop pretending like it was something new and uniquely horrible.

ben_w 4y ago
I think the criticism here is that Iberian history is not uniquely better rather than claiming it's uniquely worse. (I'm British, so I'm not going to claim less-awful-than-thou against any nation).
vasco 4y ago
If you agree with that innovation, you also seem to agree with me that the spanish were in fact involved with slavery, as opposed to what the person I replied to said. Not sure where you saw me "pretend" about anything, I just presented facts and a wikipedia article.

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago

Yeah, my wording was definitely too general. There was slavery in Spain, my intended meaning was that there was no systematic enslavement of black people but there is definitely a chasm between what was in my brain and what I actually wrote, so I stand corrected. Regarding blackface, what do you suggest to do, then, if there is a tradition of someone portraying a character (whom children believe in) that happens to be black, if there are no black people at all to do it?

foldr 4y ago
From the Wikipedia article linked above: >By the 16th century, 7.4 percent of the population in Seville, Spain were slaves. Many historians have concluded that Renaissance and early-modern Spain had the highest amount of African slaves in Europe As for what to do about blackface characters, the simplest solution is just to portray them differently. I believe this is gradually becoming a more popular option in the Netherlands, which has a similar problem with Zwarte Piet: https://raffia-magazine.com/2020/12/02/outgrowing-zwarte-piet-turning-a-racist-past-into-an-inclusive-future/ https://raffia-magazine.com/2020/12/02/outgrowing-zwarte-pie...
wizofaus 4y ago
Do you have as an example of where applying dark coloured make-up to anyone of a European background to make them look exotic/foreign doesn't also look completely ridiculous (and inevitably somewhat insulting)? And yes I'd include "Zwarte Piet". If you're putting on a performance where it's crucial that the audience identifies a particular character as African (or Moorish) then find a performer who can convincingly and respectfully pull it off sans make-up, or adapt the plot to what you have available. I gather that's what's done for the part of Othello for at least 30 years now at any rate.