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> Apple users are happy to pay a premium to be able to carry around a device with an Apple logo on it for everyone around them to see. For the people who don't

> Apple users are happy to pay a premium to be able to carry around a device with an Apple logo on it for everyone around them to see. For the people who don't fit that description, the lock-ins you mention will keep them in line. Or maybe we just like the OS, build quality, or available iOS only applications? Maybe we like the battery life or the quality or the apple ecosystem. Maybe we like prompt, regular, and long term supported security updates. Pretty silly generalization.

matesz 3y ago
Small inscription on Apple Pay overlay showing that %30 of purchase is going to Apple? Same with Google
bruce511 3y ago
Maybe we just like the idea of a central app store, where everything has to be approved. -makers- want other app stores, but I'm not sure consumers do. I'd go so far as to argue that -consumers- like the single-app-store, and see that as a feature.
- wvenable 3y ago
  Consumers also don't know what they don't have.
  - eecc 3y ago
    I do know I don’t have to install an alt-store that is going to let its apps track my very soul if I need to install a popular app. E.g. imagine Google rolling their own Play to install Chrome or Maps. Facebook for Whatsapp, Amazon for Kindle et Al, Netflix for its own… etc etc. No the moment that happens it’s over
    - modo_mario 3y ago
      Like what? F-droid?
      - eecc 3y ago
        Yeah righty, that’s like trying to stop the ocean with your hands. You know that 99.999% of users will have several applications or gadgets forcing them — and eventually you, if you want to remain socially functional — to install an unrestricted alt-store. Eg: anecdote: mother-on-law was gifted a cheap smartwatch (Samsung I think). Installing its companion software required downloading and registering to a whole new store on her Android smartphone. Weirdly enough I think it was also a Samsung, already had 2 stores (the Samsung and Play ones), yet she (we) had to dump yet another one on that sorry mess.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Henry Ford[0] quote about consumers wanting a better horse. But in this case, Android does exist. [0] Misunderstanding leading to misattribution: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/28/ford-faster-horse https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/28/ford-faster-horse
- theodric 3y ago
  No *durable* (i.e. doesn't expire in a week and need to be refreshed) sideloading is the no.2 thing keeping me off iOS. The no.1 thing is that I find the entire user experience frustrating, inflexible, and frankly condescending. 3 would be that I can get 2-3 decent Android devices for the cost of an iPhone, so my phone-having-time per € works out about same-- plus I still get to upgrade every couple of years. I get that people like their iPhones. My wife is one of them. I'm not. People are different. Choice is good. Some folks choose to cede control in favor of simplicity. Go off.
stouset 3y ago
No no, obviously we do it for the shiny Apple logo hidden behind the case we put our phone into.
safety1st 3y ago
Oh yeah it's all about that operating system and the build quality, man. That's why this trend exists: https://www.vogue.com/article/breathless-couples-who-are-not-tech-compatible https://www.vogue.com/article/breathless-couples-who-are-not...
radicalbyte 3y ago
The build quality of Apple software is horrible. Really terrible. That's why I avoid their phones. Their laptops on the the other hand have a sleep state that works and the battery lasts >8 hrs even when heavily used. Mine is giving the service warning but still lasts longer than any Windows or Linux machine I've ever used (and it doesn't empty itself when the shell is closed).
- vetinari 3y ago
  > Their laptops on the the other hand have a sleep state that works Mostly & sometimes. I'm unable wake up M1 MBP when docked in clamshell mode to a TB dock, once it blanked the screen, but didn't go to full sleep yet. Either put it into full sleep (=> turn off the monitor, it will notice and go to sleep) and then wake it up, or undock it and wake it up undocked. In both cases, it will lose all peripherals attached to dock (like ethernet) while doing the exercise. Pretty annoying actually, and it didn't happen with Intel Macs.
  - radicalbyte 3y ago
    I've had three Macbooks (M1 MBA, M1 MBP, Intel) with no issues. I have never had a Windows laptop (Dell, Lenovo, IBM) and none have ever worked.
    - midoridensha 3y ago
      > I have never had a Windows laptop (Dell, Lenovo, IBM) and none have ever worked. Well, of course Windows laptops that you have never had aren't going to work...
    - ddingus 3y ago
      I've had two Macbooks (2012 MBP, M1 Air) with no issues. I've had Lenovo laptops going back to 2005 with most of those machines running great --almost as great as the Apple machines do. Got a coffee spill on my 2012 MBP and Apple didn't really want to fix it. I was quoted nearly a new machine. I bought parts myself, fixed it for $150 and some (intense) labor. Apple really doesn't want me doing that. Had it happen again a few years later. Parts were HARD to get, and so... yeah, that one is in a box now. Lenovo doesn't seem to care. Parts are inexpensive, I've had to do a few more repairs, but they were not hard. I can still get parts for my Lenovo machines. For a lot of reasons my daily driver remains Lenovo. I do use my Apple a lot more than I used to now however... Homd[k Lenovo takes a beating better than Apple does. Apple is very petty
codedokode 3y ago
> Or maybe we just like the OS I don't think that ordinary non-programmer people care about OS or even understand what it is. And programmers probably would prefer Linux over some proprietary OS where you cannot even sideload apps. > build quality I don't understand what this means. It is not like Android smartphones are breaking apart immediately after purchase. I think the real reason why people buy Apple is due to belief (artificially created by marketing, not based on real studies) that Apple makes expensive, but high quality devices. And maybe because of a good camera.
- parasubvert 3y ago
  > over some proprietary OS where you cannot even sideload apps. Developers can side load apps on IOS that are under development work have a limited distribution. Also, most developers don’t like or use Linux as their desktop OS. > It is not like Android smartphones are breaking apart immediately after purchase. Some of them are that bad, yes. > I think the real reason why people buy Apple is due to belief (artificially created by marketing, not based on real studies) that Apple makes expensive, but high quality devices. Back with the incredibly condescending view that Apple users clearly don’t know what they’re doing. In spite of so many comments explaining the reasons: hardware and software design, hardware build quality, accessibility features, handoff features, multi-device ecosystem integration, privacy and security, there is a long list of rational reasons.
- Sebb767 3y ago
  > I don't think that ordinary non-programmer people care about OS or even understand what it is. They might not now what an OS is, but they surely do care about the UI, speed and general handling. > And programmers probably would prefer Linux over some proprietary OS where you cannot even sideload apps. Yet most do not. I say this as an mostly exclusive Linux user. > I think the real reason why people buy Apple is due to belief (artificially created by marketing, not based on real studies) that Apple makes expensive, but high quality devices. And maybe because of a good camera. Yet this is true. Apple has a very good build quality and, for the most part, great support. It's true that high-quality Android phones do match that, but they are not priced that differently compared to modern iPhones. Of course there's also some marketing involved, as well as Apple being a status symbol, but it's not like Apple is producing inferior products.
epolanski 3y ago
Problem here is: you can get astonishingly good phones today at the 300$ range or below that are comparable to premium phones (including the iPhone) from just few years ago. I am a long time multi OS users, and I just don't find Apple phones priced in any way to merit that plus in price. E.g. The cheaper Google Pixel 6a offers more or less what the iPhone 12 Pro or 13 base offers in terms of battery life, performance, screen, camera, so it all comes down to what? OS? Why would I spend such crazy $ for a brand new iPhone 14, even the base one, when I can get a comparatively as good phone for less than half the price and change it again next year or two when I will get at similar prices a phone much better than the iPhone (not that it matters, I honestly believe all this tech and GHz on phones have no use in most people's lives and how I see them using their devices). May I just say that despite the Apple hype it's an ecosystem full of problems and cons as well, especially for more tech-inclined people?
- suslik 3y ago
  > I am a long time multi OS users, and I just don't find Apple phones priced in any way to merit that plus in price. E.g. The cheaper Google Pixel 6a offers more or less what the iPhone 12 Pro or 13 base offers in terms of battery life, performance, screen, camera, so it all comes down to what? OS? Depends on what you care about. For instance, I am paying the premium simply to make sure Google didn't have its fat fingers inside my phone.
  - epolanski 3y ago
    a) Why does it matter? b) Why is it okay if Apple does that? c) Why don't you de-google an Android phone, plenty of OSs to choose from? d) You know that Google owns thousands of patents, including several key Motorola Mobile patents so you're paying Google even when you buy an iPhone?
    - suslik 3y ago
      Simple, really. Google is an ad company, while Apple isn't. I have no idea how Google analyses behavioural patterns etc, but it pleases me to think that perhaps I somewhat reduce the number of times I become a data point for them (same reason why I don't use their search). c) Why don't you de-google an Android phone, plenty of OSs to choose from? My bank app and national e-id won't work, or so I heard. Plus, I do enough tinkering with my xmonad config, emacs init file, and all that. Simply no energy or interest left to spend on mobile, which to me is relatively unimportant.

matesz 3y ago

Small inscription on Apple Pay overlay showing that %30 of purchase is going to Apple? Same with Google

bruce511 3y ago

Maybe we just like the idea of a central app store, where everything has to be approved. -makers- want other app stores, but I'm not sure consumers do. I'd go so far as to argue that -consumers- like the single-app-store, and see that as a feature.

wvenable 3y ago
Consumers also don't know what they don't have.
- eecc 3y ago
  I do know I don’t have to install an alt-store that is going to let its apps track my very soul if I need to install a popular app. E.g. imagine Google rolling their own Play to install Chrome or Maps. Facebook for Whatsapp, Amazon for Kindle et Al, Netflix for its own… etc etc. No the moment that happens it’s over
  - modo_mario 3y ago
    Like what? F-droid?
    - eecc 3y ago
      Yeah righty, that’s like trying to stop the ocean with your hands. You know that 99.999% of users will have several applications or gadgets forcing them — and eventually you, if you want to remain socially functional — to install an unrestricted alt-store. Eg: anecdote: mother-on-law was gifted a cheap smartwatch (Samsung I think). Installing its companion software required downloading and registering to a whole new store on her Android smartphone. Weirdly enough I think it was also a Samsung, already had 2 stores (the Samsung and Play ones), yet she (we) had to dump yet another one on that sorry mess.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Henry Ford[0] quote about consumers wanting a better horse. But in this case, Android does exist. [0] Misunderstanding leading to misattribution: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/28/ford-faster-horse https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/28/ford-faster-horse
theodric 3y ago
No *durable* (i.e. doesn't expire in a week and need to be refreshed) sideloading is the no.2 thing keeping me off iOS. The no.1 thing is that I find the entire user experience frustrating, inflexible, and frankly condescending. 3 would be that I can get 2-3 decent Android devices for the cost of an iPhone, so my phone-having-time per € works out about same-- plus I still get to upgrade every couple of years. I get that people like their iPhones. My wife is one of them. I'm not. People are different. Choice is good. Some folks choose to cede control in favor of simplicity. Go off.

stouset 3y ago

No no, obviously we do it for the shiny Apple logo hidden behind the case we put our phone into.

safety1st 3y ago

Oh yeah it's all about that operating system and the build quality, man. That's why this trend exists: https://www.vogue.com/article/breathless-couples-who-are-not-tech-compatible https://www.vogue.com/article/breathless-couples-who-are-not...

radicalbyte 3y ago

The build quality of Apple software is horrible. Really terrible. That's why I avoid their phones. Their laptops on the the other hand have a sleep state that works and the battery lasts >8 hrs even when heavily used. Mine is giving the service warning but still lasts longer than any Windows or Linux machine I've ever used (and it doesn't empty itself when the shell is closed).

vetinari 3y ago
> Their laptops on the the other hand have a sleep state that works Mostly & sometimes. I'm unable wake up M1 MBP when docked in clamshell mode to a TB dock, once it blanked the screen, but didn't go to full sleep yet. Either put it into full sleep (=> turn off the monitor, it will notice and go to sleep) and then wake it up, or undock it and wake it up undocked. In both cases, it will lose all peripherals attached to dock (like ethernet) while doing the exercise. Pretty annoying actually, and it didn't happen with Intel Macs.
- radicalbyte 3y ago
  I've had three Macbooks (M1 MBA, M1 MBP, Intel) with no issues. I have never had a Windows laptop (Dell, Lenovo, IBM) and none have ever worked.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    > I have never had a Windows laptop (Dell, Lenovo, IBM) and none have ever worked. Well, of course Windows laptops that you have never had aren't going to work...
  - ddingus 3y ago
    I've had two Macbooks (2012 MBP, M1 Air) with no issues. I've had Lenovo laptops going back to 2005 with most of those machines running great --almost as great as the Apple machines do. Got a coffee spill on my 2012 MBP and Apple didn't really want to fix it. I was quoted nearly a new machine. I bought parts myself, fixed it for $150 and some (intense) labor. Apple really doesn't want me doing that. Had it happen again a few years later. Parts were HARD to get, and so... yeah, that one is in a box now. Lenovo doesn't seem to care. Parts are inexpensive, I've had to do a few more repairs, but they were not hard. I can still get parts for my Lenovo machines. For a lot of reasons my daily driver remains Lenovo. I do use my Apple a lot more than I used to now however... Homd[k Lenovo takes a beating better than Apple does. Apple is very petty

codedokode 3y ago

> Or maybe we just like the OS I don't think that ordinary non-programmer people care about OS or even understand what it is. And programmers probably would prefer Linux over some proprietary OS where you cannot even sideload apps. > build quality I don't understand what this means. It is not like Android smartphones are breaking apart immediately after purchase. I think the real reason why people buy Apple is due to belief (artificially created by marketing, not based on real studies) that Apple makes expensive, but high quality devices. And maybe because of a good camera.

parasubvert 3y ago
> over some proprietary OS where you cannot even sideload apps. Developers can side load apps on IOS that are under development work have a limited distribution. Also, most developers don’t like or use Linux as their desktop OS. > It is not like Android smartphones are breaking apart immediately after purchase. Some of them are that bad, yes. > I think the real reason why people buy Apple is due to belief (artificially created by marketing, not based on real studies) that Apple makes expensive, but high quality devices. Back with the incredibly condescending view that Apple users clearly don’t know what they’re doing. In spite of so many comments explaining the reasons: hardware and software design, hardware build quality, accessibility features, handoff features, multi-device ecosystem integration, privacy and security, there is a long list of rational reasons.
Sebb767 3y ago
> I don't think that ordinary non-programmer people care about OS or even understand what it is. They might not now what an OS is, but they surely do care about the UI, speed and general handling. > And programmers probably would prefer Linux over some proprietary OS where you cannot even sideload apps. Yet most do not. I say this as an mostly exclusive Linux user. > I think the real reason why people buy Apple is due to belief (artificially created by marketing, not based on real studies) that Apple makes expensive, but high quality devices. And maybe because of a good camera. Yet this is true. Apple has a very good build quality and, for the most part, great support. It's true that high-quality Android phones do match that, but they are not priced that differently compared to modern iPhones. Of course there's also some marketing involved, as well as Apple being a status symbol, but it's not like Apple is producing inferior products.

epolanski 3y ago

Problem here is: you can get astonishingly good phones today at the 300$ range or below that are comparable to premium phones (including the iPhone) from just few years ago. I am a long time multi OS users, and I just don't find Apple phones priced in any way to merit that plus in price. E.g. The cheaper Google Pixel 6a offers more or less what the iPhone 12 Pro or 13 base offers in terms of battery life, performance, screen, camera, so it all comes down to what? OS? Why would I spend such crazy $ for a brand new iPhone 14, even the base one, when I can get a comparatively as good phone for less than half the price and change it again next year or two when I will get at similar prices a phone much better than the iPhone (not that it matters, I honestly believe all this tech and GHz on phones have no use in most people's lives and how I see them using their devices). May I just say that despite the Apple hype it's an ecosystem full of problems and cons as well, especially for more tech-inclined people?

suslik 3y ago
> I am a long time multi OS users, and I just don't find Apple phones priced in any way to merit that plus in price. E.g. The cheaper Google Pixel 6a offers more or less what the iPhone 12 Pro or 13 base offers in terms of battery life, performance, screen, camera, so it all comes down to what? OS? Depends on what you care about. For instance, I am paying the premium simply to make sure Google didn't have its fat fingers inside my phone.
- epolanski 3y ago
  a) Why does it matter? b) Why is it okay if Apple does that? c) Why don't you de-google an Android phone, plenty of OSs to choose from? d) You know that Google owns thousands of patents, including several key Motorola Mobile patents so you're paying Google even when you buy an iPhone?
  - suslik 3y ago
    Simple, really. Google is an ad company, while Apple isn't. I have no idea how Google analyses behavioural patterns etc, but it pleases me to think that perhaps I somewhat reduce the number of times I become a data point for them (same reason why I don't use their search). c) Why don't you de-google an Android phone, plenty of OSs to choose from? My bank app and national e-id won't work, or so I heard. Plus, I do enough tinkering with my xmonad config, emacs init file, and all that. Simply no energy or interest left to spend on mobile, which to me is relatively unimportant.