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,,To us, that's obvious'' I'm not so sure. I'm completely unable to keep in mind the amount of companies that get my data and what data they are getting, when

,,To us, that's obvious'' I'm not so sure. I'm completely unable to keep in mind the amount of companies that get my data and what data they are getting, when they are getting / using it, and how. It's not just out of control, but impossible to even imagine.

justinclift 4y ago
How did you get yourself into that state?
- ehnto 4y ago
  By browsing the web probably.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  You don't get into that state, it's the default result of being tracked as surreptitiously as companies can get away with.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    Dunno about that. Seems like the kind of thing where people would have to be using services that explicitly do that crap. eg Google, Facebook, etc. People not using those services seem to be doing ok. :)
    - Ar-Curunir 4y ago
      er do you not use a search engine?
      - justinclift 4y ago
        Duck Duck Go, and now sometimes Kagi
        pmoriarty 4y ago
        How could a user of these services know that they're not being tracked when using them? We only have their word to go on, and absolutely no way to verify, afaik.
        justinclift 4y ago
        That's a decent point. But are you saying there's no difference between known bad actors (Google, FB, etc) and DDG / Kagi?
    - Mossly 4y ago
      Hubris aside, it was established as early as 2008 that Facebook collects data on non-users for so called 'shadow profiles.' Zuckerberg himself indirectly confirmed this: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getrevue.co/profile/caseynewton/issues/the-data-facebook-collects-without-permission-106802 https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getre...
    - felurx 4y ago
      In addition to other comments: Using Google, Meta (with Instagram and WhatsApp), Snapchat, TikTok and whatnot is the default state for big parts of the world.
    - ddalex 4y ago
      You don't have to use Google for Google to have ~half of your emails. https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-be... Google have been so far good stewards of your data so nothing to worry about.
    - McSwag 4y ago
      If you have literally any credit card, bank account, loan, property, a car, a single amazon purchase, starbucks rewards, I absolutely guarantee that you have a profile that’s being sold for ransom by any number of those providers. The title companies, credit reporting agencies alone also automatically get that information and subsequently sell that as well. If you buy any real estate or own any business, there are dozens if not hundreds of companies whose sole purpose is to scrape all that public government data and subsequently sell that to third parties. Yes, there are dark patterns involved.
    - npteljes 4y ago
      Many services just bundle the crap. Smart phone app, and websites, are often using third party libraries which bring huge developer convenience and other benefits - and they also imply tracking the user. https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-facebook-tracks-you-even-when-youre-not-on-facebook-a7977954071/ https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-facebook-tracks-...
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      You don't have to use services for google or facebook to track you through your face or being tagged in your relatives and/or friends accounts. I kept getting the "eyes rolling look" when I mention my partner and other relatives friends I don't want them to post pictures of me online and I have very little way to make sure they don't. The only way is to refuse being photographed and basically avoid social events. You shouldn't have to be forced into antisocial behavior to make sure you aren't being tracked. And I am only talking about photos, there are many other ways to be tracked and identified.
      - pmoriarty 4y ago
        > The only way is to refuse being photographed and basically avoid social events. Depending on where you live, you'll still be on probably dozens if not hundreds of security cameras as you go about your day. It reminds me about the furor over so-called "glassholes" who filmed people while wearing Google Glass. People were outraged when they saw that they were being filmed with cameras that were right in their face, but don't care the that dozens of (mostly invisible) security cameras film them daily.
- episteme 4y ago
  Is this a genuine question? To ask this must mean you either don't realise all the tracking that is happening via your phone and web browsing unless you explicitly block it or you explicitly block every possible opportunity to be tracked and put continuous effort into staying anonymous. In the case of the latter, you know the answer because it would simply be not spending that time and effort, which isn't the top priority of most people, nor should it be.
- npteljes 4y ago
  By existing in this current era. Facebook, for example, has been found to keep profiles on people who are not yet registered in their service. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile

justinclift 4y ago

How did you get yourself into that state?

ehnto 4y ago
By browsing the web probably.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
You don't get into that state, it's the default result of being tracked as surreptitiously as companies can get away with.
- justinclift 4y ago
  Dunno about that. Seems like the kind of thing where people would have to be using services that explicitly do that crap. eg Google, Facebook, etc. People not using those services seem to be doing ok. :)
  - Ar-Curunir 4y ago
    er do you not use a search engine?
    - justinclift 4y ago
      Duck Duck Go, and now sometimes Kagi
      - pmoriarty 4y ago
        How could a user of these services know that they're not being tracked when using them? We only have their word to go on, and absolutely no way to verify, afaik.
        justinclift 4y ago
        That's a decent point. But are you saying there's no difference between known bad actors (Google, FB, etc) and DDG / Kagi?
  - Mossly 4y ago
    Hubris aside, it was established as early as 2008 that Facebook collects data on non-users for so called 'shadow profiles.' Zuckerberg himself indirectly confirmed this: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getrevue.co/profile/caseynewton/issues/the-data-facebook-collects-without-permission-106802 https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getre...
  - felurx 4y ago
    In addition to other comments: Using Google, Meta (with Instagram and WhatsApp), Snapchat, TikTok and whatnot is the default state for big parts of the world.
  - ddalex 4y ago
    You don't have to use Google for Google to have ~half of your emails. https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-be... Google have been so far good stewards of your data so nothing to worry about.
  - McSwag 4y ago
    If you have literally any credit card, bank account, loan, property, a car, a single amazon purchase, starbucks rewards, I absolutely guarantee that you have a profile that’s being sold for ransom by any number of those providers. The title companies, credit reporting agencies alone also automatically get that information and subsequently sell that as well. If you buy any real estate or own any business, there are dozens if not hundreds of companies whose sole purpose is to scrape all that public government data and subsequently sell that to third parties. Yes, there are dark patterns involved.
  - npteljes 4y ago
    Many services just bundle the crap. Smart phone app, and websites, are often using third party libraries which bring huge developer convenience and other benefits - and they also imply tracking the user. https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-facebook-tracks-you-even-when-youre-not-on-facebook-a7977954071/ https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-facebook-tracks-...
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    You don't have to use services for google or facebook to track you through your face or being tagged in your relatives and/or friends accounts. I kept getting the "eyes rolling look" when I mention my partner and other relatives friends I don't want them to post pictures of me online and I have very little way to make sure they don't. The only way is to refuse being photographed and basically avoid social events. You shouldn't have to be forced into antisocial behavior to make sure you aren't being tracked. And I am only talking about photos, there are many other ways to be tracked and identified.
    - pmoriarty 4y ago
      > The only way is to refuse being photographed and basically avoid social events. Depending on where you live, you'll still be on probably dozens if not hundreds of security cameras as you go about your day. It reminds me about the furor over so-called "glassholes" who filmed people while wearing Google Glass. People were outraged when they saw that they were being filmed with cameras that were right in their face, but don't care the that dozens of (mostly invisible) security cameras film them daily.
episteme 4y ago
Is this a genuine question? To ask this must mean you either don't realise all the tracking that is happening via your phone and web browsing unless you explicitly block it or you explicitly block every possible opportunity to be tracked and put continuous effort into staying anonymous. In the case of the latter, you know the answer because it would simply be not spending that time and effort, which isn't the top priority of most people, nor should it be.
npteljes 4y ago
By existing in this current era. Facebook, for example, has been found to keep profiles on people who are not yet registered in their service. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile