8 ms·

Not to mention the dating and marriage prospects without a college degree, even if you outearn a degree holder, are worse.

cudgy 4y ago
My guess is once the date sees a nicer house, car, and bank account, the college degree bump drops like an anchor.
- lostapathy 4y ago
  The trouble there is that you're probably out of your prime dating years by the time you're your own boss and really making big money in the trades. It takes time to establish and build that business, the early years can be pretty lean as people get the business going.
- xattt 4y ago
  Going by post-secondary education status tends to filter for a character trait I’ve yet to name. The closest I’ve come is something akin to long-term emotional regulation. Obviously, there’s many, many exceptions to this. I’ve worked in an environment where there was a mix of grads from certificate, diploma and degree programs. There were certain “profiles” of people that you would come to expect from each “bin” and 8/10 times your hunches were right.
- asdfman123 4y ago
  Most guys on the internet think a guy has to meet a high bar of requirements when really all they want is someone who is not so dependent on them: can take care of himself, cover his own bills, etc. Someone who’s self sufficient and doesn’t need a mother. Sure, maybe that one girl passed on you in your 20s because you didn’t have the right credentials, but there are plenty of other people out there.
  - trashtester 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - asdfman123 4y ago
      I think the education and income requirements do (severely) limit the choices of ambitious women, but that’s their problem, not ours. The rest of the requirements are reasonable, and imo, the attractiveness standard for men is way lower. And more generally, there’s a place for venting. But make sure you aren’t making excuses for yourself, because taking action to improve your life is probably simpler than you think, and will make you happier.
      - trashtester 3y ago
        > And more generally, there’s a place for venting. But make sure you aren’t making excuses for yourself, because taking action to improve your life is probably simpler than you think, and will make you happier. Point take, though I'm married with children. > but that’s their problem, not ours. So it's my daughters' problem, hence my job to prepare them for. More generally, though, I think it's linked to the electrician shortage as well as the ongoing population collapse. Resourceful men can work around it relatively easily, and even use the hypergamy to their advantage. But for society, the hypergamy is a factor that needs to be understood and either incorporated into the social structure (such as by allowing polygamy, like in Muslim countries) or by some other means that prevents the population collapse (and other problems) that the current hypergamous culture leads to.
    - watwut 4y ago
      The goal is not to be able to marry all women that ever existed. The goal is to marry one.
      - trashtester 3y ago
        Well, I'm already married, and I think 1 is enough for me. But the current trend where about 40% of men (much higher in some social groups) end up single, and not of their own choosing, I expect it to cause all sorts problems in the future, caused by frustrated men willing to take greater and greater risks to get access to women.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  In America, no. College-educated women are NOT interested in men without college degrees, no matter how much money they make. There might be rare exceptions for men that managed to become educated on their own after dropping out, like Steve Jobs. It's not about the money, it's about the class, and also the pedigree. Blue-collar people are simply in a very different class than white-collar college-educated people. Their life experiences are completely different, and in the last few decades, with political polarization, their political views are 180 degrees different too.
twothamendment 4y ago
If she wants my for my money she can move on, no loss.
- flangola7 4y ago
  Money is one of the most important elements in a relationship. Anyone telling you "love conquers all" is a fool or privileged to the point of ignorance.
  - aix1 4y ago
    When you say "Money is one of the most important elements in a relationship", do you mean financial stability in the broad sense, or something else?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    While this is certainly true to an extent (and I wouldn't say it's "money" that's important, but rather "financial stability"), the issue researchers have seen is that high-earning women in America simply will not "date down". These women have more than enough money for 2 people, but even so will not date men who earn less than themselves. The opposite is not the case: men earning the same don't have this same requirement of dating partners, and in fact usually date women who earn less, many times much less.
    - trashtester 4y ago
      And it's not even just the money. A woman with a college degree may be unwilling to date a tradesperson even if he's making $200k and she $30k.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        Exactly, and for good reason too. The two people are so far apart politically, culturally, and in basic values and worldview that they aren't going to be able to have a lasting relationship.
swalling 4y ago
Turns out that outside the HN startup bubble there are a lot of perfectly nice women who don’t have white collar careers who still want husbands. Electricians and plumbers generally marry women like elementary school teachers, nurses, house cleaners, and administrative assistants. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/
- jackcosgrove 4y ago
  I didn't mean to imply that the "prospects" were referring to the quality of the other partner, but rather to the probability of being married at all. There's a well-documented marriage rate gap based on educational attainment. This is a recent trend. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/08/19/the-most-educated-women-are-the-most-likely-to-be-married/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/08...
  - rovolo 4y ago
    Note that this article is plotting "% of women 40-45 currently married". Limitations: 1) only women, 2) "currently married" instead of "ever married", 3) the 40-45 age band is when kids finish HS if you had them in your early 20s, which could juice the divorce rate. I tried to get a broader picture from data.census.gov, but I don't know how to navigate it well enough to recreate the Brookings graph. https://data.census.gov/table?t=Marital+Status+and+Marital+History&y=2019&d=ACS+1-Year+Estimates+Detailed+Tables&tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B12002 https://data.census.gov/table?t=Marital+Status+and+Marital+H...

cudgy 4y ago

My guess is once the date sees a nicer house, car, and bank account, the college degree bump drops like an anchor.

lostapathy 4y ago
The trouble there is that you're probably out of your prime dating years by the time you're your own boss and really making big money in the trades. It takes time to establish and build that business, the early years can be pretty lean as people get the business going.
xattt 4y ago
Going by post-secondary education status tends to filter for a character trait I’ve yet to name. The closest I’ve come is something akin to long-term emotional regulation. Obviously, there’s many, many exceptions to this. I’ve worked in an environment where there was a mix of grads from certificate, diploma and degree programs. There were certain “profiles” of people that you would come to expect from each “bin” and 8/10 times your hunches were right.
asdfman123 4y ago
Most guys on the internet think a guy has to meet a high bar of requirements when really all they want is someone who is not so dependent on them: can take care of himself, cover his own bills, etc. Someone who’s self sufficient and doesn’t need a mother. Sure, maybe that one girl passed on you in your 20s because you didn’t have the right credentials, but there are plenty of other people out there.
- trashtester 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - asdfman123 4y ago
    I think the education and income requirements do (severely) limit the choices of ambitious women, but that’s their problem, not ours. The rest of the requirements are reasonable, and imo, the attractiveness standard for men is way lower. And more generally, there’s a place for venting. But make sure you aren’t making excuses for yourself, because taking action to improve your life is probably simpler than you think, and will make you happier.
    - trashtester 3y ago
      > And more generally, there’s a place for venting. But make sure you aren’t making excuses for yourself, because taking action to improve your life is probably simpler than you think, and will make you happier. Point take, though I'm married with children. > but that’s their problem, not ours. So it's my daughters' problem, hence my job to prepare them for. More generally, though, I think it's linked to the electrician shortage as well as the ongoing population collapse. Resourceful men can work around it relatively easily, and even use the hypergamy to their advantage. But for society, the hypergamy is a factor that needs to be understood and either incorporated into the social structure (such as by allowing polygamy, like in Muslim countries) or by some other means that prevents the population collapse (and other problems) that the current hypergamous culture leads to.
  - watwut 4y ago
    The goal is not to be able to marry all women that ever existed. The goal is to marry one.
    - trashtester 3y ago
      Well, I'm already married, and I think 1 is enough for me. But the current trend where about 40% of men (much higher in some social groups) end up single, and not of their own choosing, I expect it to cause all sorts problems in the future, caused by frustrated men willing to take greater and greater risks to get access to women.
midoridensha 4y ago
In America, no. College-educated women are NOT interested in men without college degrees, no matter how much money they make. There might be rare exceptions for men that managed to become educated on their own after dropping out, like Steve Jobs. It's not about the money, it's about the class, and also the pedigree. Blue-collar people are simply in a very different class than white-collar college-educated people. Their life experiences are completely different, and in the last few decades, with political polarization, their political views are 180 degrees different too.

twothamendment 4y ago

If she wants my for my money she can move on, no loss.

flangola7 4y ago
Money is one of the most important elements in a relationship. Anyone telling you "love conquers all" is a fool or privileged to the point of ignorance.
- aix1 4y ago
  When you say "Money is one of the most important elements in a relationship", do you mean financial stability in the broad sense, or something else?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- midoridensha 4y ago
  While this is certainly true to an extent (and I wouldn't say it's "money" that's important, but rather "financial stability"), the issue researchers have seen is that high-earning women in America simply will not "date down". These women have more than enough money for 2 people, but even so will not date men who earn less than themselves. The opposite is not the case: men earning the same don't have this same requirement of dating partners, and in fact usually date women who earn less, many times much less.
  - trashtester 4y ago
    And it's not even just the money. A woman with a college degree may be unwilling to date a tradesperson even if he's making $200k and she $30k.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      Exactly, and for good reason too. The two people are so far apart politically, culturally, and in basic values and worldview that they aren't going to be able to have a lasting relationship.

swalling 4y ago

Turns out that outside the HN startup bubble there are a lot of perfectly nice women who don’t have white collar careers who still want husbands. Electricians and plumbers generally marry women like elementary school teachers, nurses, house cleaners, and administrative assistants. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-who-marries-whom/

jackcosgrove 4y ago
I didn't mean to imply that the "prospects" were referring to the quality of the other partner, but rather to the probability of being married at all. There's a well-documented marriage rate gap based on educational attainment. This is a recent trend. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/08/19/the-most-educated-women-are-the-most-likely-to-be-married/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/08...
- rovolo 4y ago
  Note that this article is plotting "% of women 40-45 currently married". Limitations: 1) only women, 2) "currently married" instead of "ever married", 3) the 40-45 age band is when kids finish HS if you had them in your early 20s, which could juice the divorce rate. I tried to get a broader picture from data.census.gov, but I don't know how to navigate it well enough to recreate the Brookings graph. https://data.census.gov/table?t=Marital+Status+and+Marital+History&y=2019&d=ACS+1-Year+Estimates+Detailed+Tables&tid=ACSDT1Y2019.B12002 https://data.census.gov/table?t=Marital+Status+and+Marital+H...