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Counter anecdote... A good friend of mine in HS did one semester of college, said "nope. not for me" and became an electrician. Fast forward ~30 years, he pla

Counter anecdote... A good friend of mine in HS did one semester of college, said "nope. not for me" and became an electrician. Fast forward ~30 years, he planning on retiring in a few years (could retire now if he wanted to). He's smart, worked hard, learned and taught himself as much as possible. Took & passed all tests asap, got his contractor's license asap, etc. Branched out to learn industrial controls and electrical too. I think pursuing a trade can be a really good way to go... but you need to go into it planning to learn & teach yourself and push the excel. I know welders who make >200k USD a year working 4-6 months a year. They are crazy skilled and know their craft inside and out... they know more metallurgical science than me (and way more practical knowledge about metal alloys) and I was chemical and materials engineering major. I know a master carpenter/craftsman who makea >500k a year, profit, doing high end cabinets, woodworking, furniture, building, kitchen remodels, etc.

dieselgate 3y ago
For sure there are tradespeople making those kind of wages but are definitely extreme outliers. Edit: the big difference in software engineering compared to trades work specifically is liability. I know construction workers who have lost their license, driven a 16D nail through their kneecap, cut off fingers, etc and have no pay or anything to show for it. And can’t work as a result - this is more bodily stuff but they’re also on the hook for damages/accidents caused by subs etc. Software eng is amazing because there is really no liability compared to construction. My dad is a civil engineer and even though he’s almost a decade retired he still maintains insurance and stuff for past projects because of “statute of limitations” type liability stuff. There’s a ton of money to be made in trades/construction but the stakes are much higher
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > dad is a civil engineer and even though he’s almost a decade retired he still maintains insurance and stuff for past projects because of “statute of limitations” type liability stuff Huh. I know a doctor and a civil engineer who both, on retirement, divorced their spouses and basically gifted them everything. Zero clue how this works, legally. For what it's worth, they're both in Florida.
  - dieselgate 3y ago
    Im assuming you’re getting at they’re still together but got rid of their assets to hedge against potential lawsuits? Dang that’s nuts if so. Condos in Florida have been in the news for structural/mechanical issues is my reasoning - not sure about the medical part.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > they’re still together but got rid of their assets to hedge against potential lawsuits Yes. If the retired person is sued, the idea is they have no substantive assets.
      - jpmoral 3y ago
        Wouldn't courts see right through that and take a dim view of it?
        dmichulke 3y ago
        Related: The great (good) judge shortage
        hotpotamus 3y ago
        Simpsons did it. > Canary M. Burns was the legal owner of Springfield Nuclear Power Plant. > Burns mention that the legal plant owner is Canary M. Burns because this protects Mr. Burns from responsibility for any wrongdoing by the power plant https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Canary_M._Burns https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Canary_M._Burns Of course they were just parodying a century or two of corporate fraud; it's not exactly a recent innovation.
  - thedougd 3y ago
    It’s called a tail policy. Some insurance companies throw it in for free if you stuck with them X years before retirement.
Dig1t 3y ago
>I know a master carpenter/craftsman who makea >500k a year, I have a very close family member who is a master carpenter who does finish carpentry (like cabinets) for billionaire's homes and other large projects in LA. He has never made more than 120k, though he works union so possibly that's what limits him. How does your friend make that much?
- bluGill 3y ago
  You have to own the business to make that much money. Many years of working labor during the day, then doing bookwork at night. Eventually you do well, but those early years are not easy, and the ecconomy will turn against you more than once.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    > the ecconomy will turn against you more than once It pays to sock away some of that high income while you can. Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson just got unexpectedly fired today, but they'll be fine if they saved a chunk of their pay. And an athlete is always one injury away from no more pay.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      I don't know about Lemon, but Carlson is heir to the Swanson frozen-food fortune. He'll squeak by somehow.
      - Freak_NL 3y ago
        Not to mention that he can just move over to ever more extreme and unpalatable television networks. AON offered him a job, and if he doesn't mind being paid in rubles there's always Russia Today.
  - asdfman123 3y ago
    If we’re comparing business owners to individual contributors now, I’m sure we all know some software guy who got an obscene startup payout.
StrangeATractor 3y ago
I don't want to say making shit tons of money as a welder is easy by any means, but you can get hyper specific in that field with all the different metals and alloys so that you're one of a very small number of people worldwide qualified to weld something. It's supply and demand.

dieselgate 3y ago

For sure there are tradespeople making those kind of wages but are definitely extreme outliers. Edit: the big difference in software engineering compared to trades work specifically is liability. I know construction workers who have lost their license, driven a 16D nail through their kneecap, cut off fingers, etc and have no pay or anything to show for it. And can’t work as a result - this is more bodily stuff but they’re also on the hook for damages/accidents caused by subs etc. Software eng is amazing because there is really no liability compared to construction. My dad is a civil engineer and even though he’s almost a decade retired he still maintains insurance and stuff for past projects because of “statute of limitations” type liability stuff. There’s a ton of money to be made in trades/construction but the stakes are much higher

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> dad is a civil engineer and even though he’s almost a decade retired he still maintains insurance and stuff for past projects because of “statute of limitations” type liability stuff Huh. I know a doctor and a civil engineer who both, on retirement, divorced their spouses and basically gifted them everything. Zero clue how this works, legally. For what it's worth, they're both in Florida.
- dieselgate 3y ago
  Im assuming you’re getting at they’re still together but got rid of their assets to hedge against potential lawsuits? Dang that’s nuts if so. Condos in Florida have been in the news for structural/mechanical issues is my reasoning - not sure about the medical part.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > they’re still together but got rid of their assets to hedge against potential lawsuits Yes. If the retired person is sued, the idea is they have no substantive assets.
    - jpmoral 3y ago
      Wouldn't courts see right through that and take a dim view of it?
      - dmichulke 3y ago
        Related: The great (good) judge shortage
      - hotpotamus 3y ago
        Simpsons did it. > Canary M. Burns was the legal owner of Springfield Nuclear Power Plant. > Burns mention that the legal plant owner is Canary M. Burns because this protects Mr. Burns from responsibility for any wrongdoing by the power plant https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Canary_M._Burns https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Canary_M._Burns Of course they were just parodying a century or two of corporate fraud; it's not exactly a recent innovation.
- thedougd 3y ago
  It’s called a tail policy. Some insurance companies throw it in for free if you stuck with them X years before retirement.

Dig1t 3y ago

>I know a master carpenter/craftsman who makea >500k a year, I have a very close family member who is a master carpenter who does finish carpentry (like cabinets) for billionaire's homes and other large projects in LA. He has never made more than 120k, though he works union so possibly that's what limits him. How does your friend make that much?

bluGill 3y ago
You have to own the business to make that much money. Many years of working labor during the day, then doing bookwork at night. Eventually you do well, but those early years are not easy, and the ecconomy will turn against you more than once.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  > the ecconomy will turn against you more than once It pays to sock away some of that high income while you can. Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson just got unexpectedly fired today, but they'll be fine if they saved a chunk of their pay. And an athlete is always one injury away from no more pay.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    I don't know about Lemon, but Carlson is heir to the Swanson frozen-food fortune. He'll squeak by somehow.
    - Freak_NL 3y ago
      Not to mention that he can just move over to ever more extreme and unpalatable television networks. AON offered him a job, and if he doesn't mind being paid in rubles there's always Russia Today.
- asdfman123 3y ago
  If we’re comparing business owners to individual contributors now, I’m sure we all know some software guy who got an obscene startup payout.

StrangeATractor 3y ago

I don't want to say making shit tons of money as a welder is easy by any means, but you can get hyper specific in that field with all the different metals and alloys so that you're one of a very small number of people worldwide qualified to weld something. It's supply and demand.