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I wouldn't say it's cognitive dissonance, but rather, it's people becoming informed that their (implied) privacy choices aren't being respected. The (albeit fa

I wouldn't say it's cognitive dissonance, but rather, it's people becoming informed that their (implied) privacy choices aren't being respected. The (albeit false) implication, is that when you're not sharing your location, /you're not sharing your location/. These people likely believe that their location is private and only used when they /explicitly/ enable location sharing features. To us, that's obvious - to the lay person, it's not. It's an extremely common (and gross) dark pattern.

xiphias2 3y ago
,,To us, that's obvious'' I'm not so sure. I'm completely unable to keep in mind the amount of companies that get my data and what data they are getting, when they are getting / using it, and how. It's not just out of control, but impossible to even imagine.
- justinclift 3y ago
  How did you get yourself into that state?
  - ehnto 3y ago
    By browsing the web probably.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    You don't get into that state, it's the default result of being tracked as surreptitiously as companies can get away with.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      Dunno about that. Seems like the kind of thing where people would have to be using services that explicitly do that crap. eg Google, Facebook, etc. People not using those services seem to be doing ok. :)
      - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
        er do you not use a search engine?
        justinclift 3y ago
        Duck Duck Go, and now sometimes Kagi
        pmoriarty 3y ago
        How could a user of these services know that they're not being tracked when using them? We only have their word to go on, and absolutely no way to verify, afaik.
        justinclift 3y ago
        That's a decent point. But are you saying there's no difference between known bad actors (Google, FB, etc) and DDG / Kagi?
      - Mossly 3y ago
        Hubris aside, it was established as early as 2008 that Facebook collects data on non-users for so called 'shadow profiles.' Zuckerberg himself indirectly confirmed this: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getrevue.co/profile/caseynewton/issues/the-data-facebook-collects-without-permission-106802 https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getre...
      - felurx 3y ago
        In addition to other comments: Using Google, Meta (with Instagram and WhatsApp), Snapchat, TikTok and whatnot is the default state for big parts of the world.
      - ddalex 3y ago
        You don't have to use Google for Google to have ~half of your emails. https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-be... Google have been so far good stewards of your data so nothing to worry about.
  - episteme 3y ago
    Is this a genuine question? To ask this must mean you either don't realise all the tracking that is happening via your phone and web browsing unless you explicitly block it or you explicitly block every possible opportunity to be tracked and put continuous effort into staying anonymous. In the case of the latter, you know the answer because it would simply be not spending that time and effort, which isn't the top priority of most people, nor should it be.
  - npteljes 3y ago
    By existing in this current era. Facebook, for example, has been found to keep profiles on people who are not yet registered in their service. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile
unethical_ban 3y ago
How is it obvious? Other than nebulously creepy ads about conversations I have. How and why did an app on my phone know my location without me providing it?
- vasco 3y ago
  If you use any phone with a SIM card that is connected to a tower just for signal, not even data, you're already trackable. You can go up to application level, but the house of cards starts crumbling from cell towers first.
  - unethical_ban 3y ago
    Right, but apps should not have that data. If location is not enabled, or is not permitted for that application, they shouldn't have that data. IP addresses are a thing of course, and VPNs can help marginally but not entirely.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    The degree of precision that can be achieved using this data over a longer period of time is uncanny.
  - rtpg 3y ago
    A cell tower could be used to triangulate your position, but we're talking about an iOS app not being run by your phone company. This is why we have security features in iOS, at least in theory! If you do not have location sharing enabled, how could a company running an app know about you? I can think of things like - the cell phone company is selling your location info to the company, that has your phone number via SMS - Guessing based on EXIF data from previous posts and previous location service usage ("you're probably where you always are") Is there something else I'm missing? The point here is we are talking about an app on your phone (not some Apple service or the phone company) knowing where you are
    - thalassophobia 3y ago
      Don't forget about the IP address.
HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago
Kids are taught about online safety. To them it feels creepy when some app knows their location when they have disabled location tacking, and rightly so. Very poor decision by Snap for a product marketed for kids.

xiphias2 3y ago

,,To us, that's obvious'' I'm not so sure. I'm completely unable to keep in mind the amount of companies that get my data and what data they are getting, when they are getting / using it, and how. It's not just out of control, but impossible to even imagine.

justinclift 3y ago
How did you get yourself into that state?
- ehnto 3y ago
  By browsing the web probably.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  You don't get into that state, it's the default result of being tracked as surreptitiously as companies can get away with.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Dunno about that. Seems like the kind of thing where people would have to be using services that explicitly do that crap. eg Google, Facebook, etc. People not using those services seem to be doing ok. :)
    - Ar-Curunir 3y ago
      er do you not use a search engine?
      - justinclift 3y ago
        Duck Duck Go, and now sometimes Kagi
        pmoriarty 3y ago
        How could a user of these services know that they're not being tracked when using them? We only have their word to go on, and absolutely no way to verify, afaik.
        justinclift 3y ago
        That's a decent point. But are you saying there's no difference between known bad actors (Google, FB, etc) and DDG / Kagi?
    - Mossly 3y ago
      Hubris aside, it was established as early as 2008 that Facebook collects data on non-users for so called 'shadow profiles.' Zuckerberg himself indirectly confirmed this: https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getrevue.co/profile/caseynewton/issues/the-data-facebook-collects-without-permission-106802 https://web.archive.org/web/20211006190710/https://www.getre...
    - felurx 3y ago
      In addition to other comments: Using Google, Meta (with Instagram and WhatsApp), Snapchat, TikTok and whatnot is the default state for big parts of the world.
    - ddalex 3y ago
      You don't have to use Google for Google to have ~half of your emails. https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours https://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-be... Google have been so far good stewards of your data so nothing to worry about.
- episteme 3y ago
  Is this a genuine question? To ask this must mean you either don't realise all the tracking that is happening via your phone and web browsing unless you explicitly block it or you explicitly block every possible opportunity to be tracked and put continuous effort into staying anonymous. In the case of the latter, you know the answer because it would simply be not spending that time and effort, which isn't the top priority of most people, nor should it be.
- npteljes 3y ago
  By existing in this current era. Facebook, for example, has been found to keep profiles on people who are not yet registered in their service. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile

unethical_ban 3y ago

How is it obvious? Other than nebulously creepy ads about conversations I have. How and why did an app on my phone know my location without me providing it?

vasco 3y ago
If you use any phone with a SIM card that is connected to a tower just for signal, not even data, you're already trackable. You can go up to application level, but the house of cards starts crumbling from cell towers first.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  Right, but apps should not have that data. If location is not enabled, or is not permitted for that application, they shouldn't have that data. IP addresses are a thing of course, and VPNs can help marginally but not entirely.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  The degree of precision that can be achieved using this data over a longer period of time is uncanny.
- rtpg 3y ago
  A cell tower could be used to triangulate your position, but we're talking about an iOS app not being run by your phone company. This is why we have security features in iOS, at least in theory! If you do not have location sharing enabled, how could a company running an app know about you? I can think of things like - the cell phone company is selling your location info to the company, that has your phone number via SMS - Guessing based on EXIF data from previous posts and previous location service usage ("you're probably where you always are") Is there something else I'm missing? The point here is we are talking about an app on your phone (not some Apple service or the phone company) knowing where you are
  - thalassophobia 3y ago
    Don't forget about the IP address.

HarHarVeryFunny 3y ago

Kids are taught about online safety. To them it feels creepy when some app knows their location when they have disabled location tacking, and rightly so. Very poor decision by Snap for a product marketed for kids.