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It's unfortunate but the Steam experience on Linux seems to be progressively getting worse (outside of Steam Deck ofc). The Steam client is often borderline unu

It's unfortunate but the Steam experience on Linux seems to be progressively getting worse (outside of Steam Deck ofc). The Steam client is often borderline unusable for Linux users. You can find many issue threads on GitHub reporting client freezes and crashes. It seems like a big part of the issues is a lack of maintenance. TF2 would actually run better on Linux via Proton but VAC isn't enabled so you can't join the vast majority of servers. Valve also has existing Source engine tooling that allows Linux ports to drop OpenGL entirely (dxvk-native as used by Portal 2 and L4D2) but they haven't added it to TF2... :(

Entinel 3y ago
Devil's advocate, I use Steam on Fedora and have had 0 issues. Very rarely freezes or crashes. It's probably the most stable application I use daily.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  I use Steam on Fedora as well and I notice a lot of jank with the Steam client (Nvidia 1080ti). Dropdown menus popping through windows, sound may or may not work for videos, freezing, etc. It's usable but it's not very pleasant.
  - Entinel 3y ago
    Just for GPU comparison I'm on an AMD RX card so it could be an Nvidia issue which is known to be jank on Linux.
- sosodev 3y ago
  It seems to work perfectly for some people. I’ve regularly had issues with the client not rendering at all, freezing, and crashing on Pop_OS 22.04 LTS with an nvidia GTX 1660ti.
- WaffleIronMaker 3y ago
  I also use Steam on Fedora, and I've not had any issues with Stardew Valley, Factorio, Celeste, N++, Undertale, and others. I remember having a brief issue with Portal, but I was able to resolve it. Overall, I've had a good experience.
- _piif 3y ago
  The client seems to be very suseptible to I/O stalls and even randomly just locks up for a few seconds by itself every once in a while on my end for some reason. That in itself would be fine if it wouldn't also directly affect games launched through Steam.
zamalek 3y ago
> You can find many issue threads on GitHub reporting client freezes and crashes. The fact that these are happening does not necessarily mean the client is getting worse. For example, it could mean that more people are installing Steam for Linux. There is no baseline to say it's getting worse, because nobody opens an issue saying "all working here." In my experience, the only issue I have on Wayland is this: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/7245 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/7245 (workaround: disable animated avatars) (edit: all AMD machine) > outside of Steam Deck ofc There is nothing special about the Steam Deck. It's just another Linux machine. > TF2 I don't play any Source games, but I could see TF2 having issues because it's in maintenance mode. If it is bjorked that has nothing to do with Steam.
- sosodev 3y ago
  True, I don't have enough data to really make that claim. I can say that my own hardware hasn't changed in ~4 years and I've been using Steam for Linux since I built this machine. It's only within the last year or so that I started having major issues with the client. > there is nothing special about the steam deck How is first party support for the hardware and software stack "nothing special"? > If it is bjorked that has nothing to do with Steam. Maybe it's not directly related to the rest of my comment but it's related to the OP. I also think it's indicative of Valve's issues with Linux.
  - zamalek 3y ago
    > How is first party support for the hardware and software stack "nothing special"? Because the vast majority of that stack (the kernel, GPU driver, window manager, and so forth) has nothing to do with Valve. They might contribute drivers to the kernel (I'm not sure if they actually do - I would expect AMD to be doing that), but otherwise it's an Arch-based distro with the same Steam client and Proton runtime that everyone else is using.
    - sosodev 3y ago
      Yes, the Steam Deck is using a fairly standard stack and the default client but you're missing the point. Valve directly tests the Steam Deck and prioritizes bug fixes for it. When users report issues with other setups it often takes months for the identified bug to be fixed if it ever is.
ho_schi 3y ago
I can’t see how native Linux support is getting worse. Linux users are good at bug reporting. Maybe some developers should care more about compatibility. And yes, especially the heterogeneous setups used by some makes support difficult. I’m worried that Valve puts too much resources into Proton (derivate of WINE) instead of tooling for native ports. Yes, Proton is needed to provide initial compatibility. But Proton is another layer of complexity (more bugs, integration, system resources) which requires more programming. I started playing CS again after it was ported natively in 2014, it runs well and all issues with WINE were gone. If Proton becomes to “good” we end up in a situation with a high maintenance burden for Valve. Game developers will rely on it and Valve has all the constant work. Instead game developers should treat Linux as first-class platform for AAA-Titles, for which the need appropriate APIs, compatibility and tooling. As Valve does itself support Linux as first-class platform from HL2 to CSGO. The target shall be official support from the very first day. Anyway. Looks like Valve has chosen a special implementation for TF2? What I miss here is a link to a bug report. Ideally opened months ago :)
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Game studios already know Linux distributions quite well on the server, and most AAA games on Android are basically only using the NDK, meaning ISO C and C++, OpenGL ES, Vulkan, OpenSL. Besides that, PlayStation OS is based on FreeBSD. Even if the 3D API is different, it is just yet another backend. They don't port them, because the QA and support aren't worth the sales, that is about it.
- danbolt 3y ago
  I think Valve has a financial incentive to keep Proton compatibility in a positive state, as it increases sales of the Steam Deck and encourages players to remain in their ecosystem. Or, I think it's more likely than the majority of AAA game developers having a financial incentive to maintain Linux versions of their products.
Arnavion 3y ago
I run Steam in a Docker container of Ubuntu 22.04 for reasons like this. Also my actual system isn't polluted with 32-bit libs, Steam can't rm-rf my home directory and games can't steal files from my home directory (homedir inside the container is a separate directory on the host), and access to X and dbus is restricted (dbus socket not forwarded, X socket is from a nested Xephyr instance) so nothing can be stolen from there either. Edit: More details in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34634854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34634854
- sosodev 3y ago
  Is there a guide for this? I'd really like to isolate Steam from the rest of my system
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - donio 3y ago
    flatpak is probably the easiest way to do this.

Entinel 3y ago

Devil's advocate, I use Steam on Fedora and have had 0 issues. Very rarely freezes or crashes. It's probably the most stable application I use daily.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
I use Steam on Fedora as well and I notice a lot of jank with the Steam client (Nvidia 1080ti). Dropdown menus popping through windows, sound may or may not work for videos, freezing, etc. It's usable but it's not very pleasant.
- Entinel 3y ago
  Just for GPU comparison I'm on an AMD RX card so it could be an Nvidia issue which is known to be jank on Linux.
sosodev 3y ago
It seems to work perfectly for some people. I’ve regularly had issues with the client not rendering at all, freezing, and crashing on Pop_OS 22.04 LTS with an nvidia GTX 1660ti.
WaffleIronMaker 3y ago
I also use Steam on Fedora, and I've not had any issues with Stardew Valley, Factorio, Celeste, N++, Undertale, and others. I remember having a brief issue with Portal, but I was able to resolve it. Overall, I've had a good experience.
_piif 3y ago
The client seems to be very suseptible to I/O stalls and even randomly just locks up for a few seconds by itself every once in a while on my end for some reason. That in itself would be fine if it wouldn't also directly affect games launched through Steam.

zamalek 3y ago

> You can find many issue threads on GitHub reporting client freezes and crashes. The fact that these are happening does not necessarily mean the client is getting worse. For example, it could mean that more people are installing Steam for Linux. There is no baseline to say it's getting worse, because nobody opens an issue saying "all working here." In my experience, the only issue I have on Wayland is this: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/7245 https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/7245 (workaround: disable animated avatars) (edit: all AMD machine) > outside of Steam Deck ofc There is nothing special about the Steam Deck. It's just another Linux machine. > TF2 I don't play any Source games, but I could see TF2 having issues because it's in maintenance mode. If it is bjorked that has nothing to do with Steam.

sosodev 3y ago
True, I don't have enough data to really make that claim. I can say that my own hardware hasn't changed in ~4 years and I've been using Steam for Linux since I built this machine. It's only within the last year or so that I started having major issues with the client. > there is nothing special about the steam deck How is first party support for the hardware and software stack "nothing special"? > If it is bjorked that has nothing to do with Steam. Maybe it's not directly related to the rest of my comment but it's related to the OP. I also think it's indicative of Valve's issues with Linux.
- zamalek 3y ago
  > How is first party support for the hardware and software stack "nothing special"? Because the vast majority of that stack (the kernel, GPU driver, window manager, and so forth) has nothing to do with Valve. They might contribute drivers to the kernel (I'm not sure if they actually do - I would expect AMD to be doing that), but otherwise it's an Arch-based distro with the same Steam client and Proton runtime that everyone else is using.
  - sosodev 3y ago
    Yes, the Steam Deck is using a fairly standard stack and the default client but you're missing the point. Valve directly tests the Steam Deck and prioritizes bug fixes for it. When users report issues with other setups it often takes months for the identified bug to be fixed if it ever is.

ho_schi 3y ago

I can’t see how native Linux support is getting worse. Linux users are good at bug reporting. Maybe some developers should care more about compatibility. And yes, especially the heterogeneous setups used by some makes support difficult. I’m worried that Valve puts too much resources into Proton (derivate of WINE) instead of tooling for native ports. Yes, Proton is needed to provide initial compatibility. But Proton is another layer of complexity (more bugs, integration, system resources) which requires more programming. I started playing CS again after it was ported natively in 2014, it runs well and all issues with WINE were gone. If Proton becomes to “good” we end up in a situation with a high maintenance burden for Valve. Game developers will rely on it and Valve has all the constant work. Instead game developers should treat Linux as first-class platform for AAA-Titles, for which the need appropriate APIs, compatibility and tooling. As Valve does itself support Linux as first-class platform from HL2 to CSGO. The target shall be official support from the very first day. Anyway. Looks like Valve has chosen a special implementation for TF2? What I miss here is a link to a bug report. Ideally opened months ago :)

pjmlp 3y ago
Game studios already know Linux distributions quite well on the server, and most AAA games on Android are basically only using the NDK, meaning ISO C and C++, OpenGL ES, Vulkan, OpenSL. Besides that, PlayStation OS is based on FreeBSD. Even if the 3D API is different, it is just yet another backend. They don't port them, because the QA and support aren't worth the sales, that is about it.
danbolt 3y ago
I think Valve has a financial incentive to keep Proton compatibility in a positive state, as it increases sales of the Steam Deck and encourages players to remain in their ecosystem. Or, I think it's more likely than the majority of AAA game developers having a financial incentive to maintain Linux versions of their products.

Arnavion 3y ago

I run Steam in a Docker container of Ubuntu 22.04 for reasons like this. Also my actual system isn't polluted with 32-bit libs, Steam can't rm-rf my home directory and games can't steal files from my home directory (homedir inside the container is a separate directory on the host), and access to X and dbus is restricted (dbus socket not forwarded, X socket is from a nested Xephyr instance) so nothing can be stolen from there either. Edit: More details in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34634854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34634854

sosodev 3y ago
Is there a guide for this? I'd really like to isolate Steam from the rest of my system
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- donio 3y ago
  flatpak is probably the easiest way to do this.