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> Over the years, we’ve relied on our own usage in conjunction with your feedback to inform our decision making. This presents a challenge, though: we don’t kno
by squeegee_scream 3y ago
> Over the years, we’ve relied on our own usage in conjunction with your feedback to inform our decision making. This presents a challenge, though: we don’t know when you run into trouble unless you tell us. And sure, we have an extensive user research program, and listen to all of the feedback you share online and in conversations with our team.
> But there are millions of people using 1Password now, often in cool and innovative ways! If we’re going to keep improving 1Password, we can no longer rely on our own usage and your direct feedback alone.
I wish I were in the room when these arguments were being made. I would like to see the data that led them to this conclusion. I used to work at 1P, I was a happy user before I started working there and I continue to be a happy user. But I can remember so many conversations about telemetry and how we’d never use it…
- nickstinemates 3y agoThe quote isn't a reflection of the conversation they were having; it's merely a justification they're using for the decision they made.
- raverbashing 3y ago> But there are millions of people using 1Password now, often in cool and innovative It's a password manager, what's "cool" about it? 1Pwd always rubbed me the wrong way in the way they "take themselves too seriously" and overrate their importance It's a password manager. They wouldn't even sync to cloud at first iirc, no? The more boring the better
- themagician 3y agoYou can use it for a lot more than just passwords, which IMO is what makes it stand apart from Bitwarden. You can store notes, credit cards, photocopies of IDs, software licenses, key pairs, etc. You get 1GB of storage. They really have turned it into a "vault" for anything digital.
- tweetle_beetle 3y agoFairly sure Bitwarden has done all that for some time. Having had to use both at work, I can't see any killer features that 1Password has in my use case and there are various small things that slow me down when using it.
- Corrado 3y agoI've been using Bitwarden for several years and I really like it. However, I do wish it had a few more item "types". Not everything fits into the ["Login", "Card", "Identity", "Secure Note"] array.
- bombcar 3y ago1password only has ["Driver Licenses", "Software Licenses", "Documents"] as additional types. "Documents" seems to be doing the heavy lifting, as the others are either a form of "Identity" or "Secure Note".
- VincentEvans 3y agoYou can store anything you want in it, as long as you are ok with seeing just the first 15 or so characters of the name you give it. Because the column that contains the contents of the vault is thin and non-resizable. Probably because they didn’t have telemetry so they didn’t know.
- ldhough 3y ago> thin and non-resizable I just checked and this works fine on macOS
- VincentEvans 3y agoThe website, not the app, which I assume you’re referring to.
- 3y ago
- croutonwagon 3y agoI agree in principle. Password managers should follow the KISS principle to extremes for the sake of security. I’ve tried to get bitwarden in the enterprise but my boss is old school and has denied the request 4 years running. Even after they added oauth and account switching to switch between personal and ent vaults.
- smt88 3y ago1Password is one of the best products I've ever used and removed tons of friction from my life when I switched from KeePass. It's a fantastic, exciting product. ...which is why this decision is extra infuriating.
- npteljes 3y agoRe:cool: it's corpo speak for "what the fuck are the users doing", and then realizing that they can build a product around that, turning it into profit. As a business, if you don't realize situations like this, you both leave money on the table, and also risk users leaving for another product, which offers the missing functionality explicitly.
- philistine 3y agoThey're headed the way of Dropbox. As Steve Jobs famously said to Dropbox when trying to purchase them: You don't have a product, you have a feature. For Dropbox it took way longer to get to that point than anyone expected, but Microsoft, Apple, and Google have all copied the Dropbox feature. 1Password is headed in the same direction and Apple is leading the pack in making it redundant. If the password section of Settings in macOS gets a separate app and a way to share passwords, 1P will end up in the same tough spot as Dropbox.
- muescha 3y agoI am eagerly anticipating the release of the Apple Passwords App. However, initially limiting it to Apple devices alone would not be practical for most users who require password sharing capabilities. This is similar to the case of iMessage vs WhatsApp, where the lack of a Windows/Android App for iMessage renders it unused by my friends and unpopular in regions where Android phones are prevalent.
- bdougherty 3y agoThere is actually an iCloud Passwords app for Windows already.
- rekwah 3y ago"1Password Unlocks $620M Round, Reaches $6.8B Valuation" would be my guess.
- t-sauer 3y ago> we don’t know when you run into trouble unless you tell us. This is almost comical. Whenever I report issues, it takes them months to fix them. And sometimes those weren‘t some small edge case problems. One was that non US keyboard users were unable to use special characters in their shortcuts. If they don‘t have the time and resources to fix such problems in a reasonable time frame, what do they think they‘ll gain out of telemetry data? Do they need verification that people use shortcuts before allocating resources?
- bwoodruff 3y agoOne anecdote as to why it has become clear telemetry is needed: When prioritizing what we needed in order to launch 1Password 8 we did not prioritize an Apple Watch app. We rarely heard from customers about Apple Watch, and so the assumption was that very few people were using it. When we launched without it, it quickly became apparent that was a poor assumption. People came out of the woodwork to ask where our Apple Watch app went. If we'd had telemetry, we could've known that lots of people were using the Watch app, and just didn't have a reason to write to us about it. -Ben, 1Password
- einherjae 3y agoThat could also have been avoided by not rewriting in Electron, which I truly think 0 users wanted, whereas the old app warranted nominations for the Apple Design Award. It’s still not too late to reverse that decision. Incidentally, how would telemetry tell you that people miss a removed feature if said telemetry was not in place before removal?
- bwoodruff 3y ago1Password for iOS does not use Electron. It uses Apple's SwiftUI. Our iOS app is what contains the Apple Watch app. The point was if we'd had telemetry while prioritizing this work, we would've known it was something many people were actually using. The little data we had showed that was not likely the case. Had we known, we would've prioritized differently.
- einherjae 3y agoFair enough, I stand corrected, and agree that telemetry would be useful there. Makes me wonder though, if there is a SwiftUI codebase, why not maintain the macOS app as a native app too?
- wootland 3y agoOr you know you could just go to Wikipedia and see how many Apple Watches have been sold, then make a good solution for that platform (wikipedia estimates 100M units as of 2020): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Watch This is absolutely no justification for telemetry.