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Technology of water in ancient Iran from prehistory to the Islamic Golden Age
- ginger2016 3y agoGlad to see ancient Iranian culture featured here. People in the west have a lot of misconceptions about Iran. Persian culture is thousands of years old.
- factorialboy 3y agoThis is so true. The original Persian culture is best preserved in India among the dwindling Parsi community. These are the original Persians who escaped to Gujarat, India during the Islamic colonization of Persia.
- afwf1 3y agoThis isn't true at all. For hundreds of years, Parsis were almost purely culturally Gujarati. Also there's limited evidence that they "escaped", Zoroastrianism still had a large presence in Fars for a while after the Muslim conquest, and they were going to some of the largest mercantile ports in the world. Also there were lots of muslims that came from Iran to these ports as well.
- chocolatelab82 3y agoI agree. Not to mention Farsi has some of the most beautiful proverbs.
- samstave 3y agoAnd where modern Maths come from... Mosques tile embellishments are actually 2d representations of 4th dimensional math concepts... - Jeasus I have to explain this on HN? -- https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11235-medieval-islamic-tiling-reveals-mathematical-savvy/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11235-medieval-islami... https://muslimheritage.com/new-discoveries-in-the-islamic-complex-of-mathematics-architecture-and-art/ https://muslimheritage.com/new-discoveries-in-the-islamic-co... etc... much learning you need
- samstave 3y agoI HOPE THAT YOU SUCCEED, PLEASE TELL ME WHEN YOU DOU
- jagaerglad 3y agoJust a minor pet peeve but why not keep calling the language "Persian" in English? Just how it doesn't feel entirely right to suddenly start calling Spanish "Español" in English, or Swedish as "Svenska" and so on
- InitialLastName 3y agoMy (open to correction) understanding was that "Farsi" has some use in referring to the Iranian standardization of Persian (as contrasted to Dari, its Afghani counterpart).
- behnamoh 3y agoBoth are correct. "Farsi" is actually the Arabic version of "Parsi" (meaning "Persian" in, well, Persian). As a Persian, I personally don't use "Farsi".
- erenyeager 3y agoDo you also personally not use any Arabic derived words in Persian? Silly idea to try to remove Arabic influence on Persian.
- behnamoh 3y agoDo you try to use Anglaise to refer to the English language? Bad idea to remove French influence on English.
- rvense 3y agoYes, it is useful when you want to contrast Iranian Persian with other varieties used in Afghanistan, Tajikistan etc., but when talking about all of them together it is confusing.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoIf they ever wanted to increase tourism, just consider: 1. Would you like to visit Persia? 2. Would you like to visit Iran?
- voz_ 3y agoIranian culture is beautiful. Food, architecture, music, literature. All corrupted by the ayatollah and fanatic religious powers that dominate the country. It is unfair to blame the west for its misconceptions when the outward presentation of that country is currently so anti-western, corrupt, and oppressive.
- soperj 3y agoThey were replacing a West installed dictator... Don't know if it's entirely the Ayatollah's fault here.
- voz_ 3y agoIt's been 44 years, I think we need to stop giving countries a pass like this, at a certain point, their destiny is their own.
- forgetfulness 3y agoThe Iranian regime is absolutely brutal at repressing revolt, the revolts are also violent but of course nothing can match a state apparatus that has to shut the country to the outside world to hide the massacre; the country has been in a state of civil unrest for the better part of the past 6 years and I count the Wikipedia estimates at some 4000 dead from the response of state actors.
- user982 3y agoFor all of those 44 years, the US has been continuously sanctioning, attacking, isolating, and threatening Iran.
- voz_ 3y agoMaybe if they didn't sponsor terrorism around the world, while oppressing their own people, they wouldn't get sanctioned? The find out part of fuck around doesn't mean they don't control their own destiny. Plenty of normal countries to look at for example.
- cactusplant7374 3y agoOnce I get a second passport I’m planning to go to Iran. I studied Farsi in college and visiting Iran has been a dream of mine for a long time. With the second passport I’m hoping it’s accepted so I can travel freely without a tour guide.
- falaki 3y agoYou may also enjoy Tajikestan. You should have no political restrictions to travel there.
- staplar 3y agoIranian or Persian? One is a subset of the other and the other encompasses other people who has equally contributed, if not more, to the Iranian culture. Check out Iranic people.
- Rygian 3y agoWater management in southeastern Spain, the Alpujarras region, is a fascinating topic. The local communities maintain very precise irrigation ditches ("acequias de careo") midway along the mountains. During the months of rainfall and snowmelt, the water flowing along these ditches is soaked into the ground up to the point where the ditch ends because all the water has been absorbed underground. Months later, the water from each such acequia springs out clean and fresh at a specific location further down the mountain, while the weather is dry, and can be used for irrigation at a time that would be otherwise impossible. The absolute differences with Iran's qanats are: zero infrastructure to develop underground, as all the water circulation happens along natural underground waterways, and clean, fresh water thanks to the layers of slow ground filtration. It is my understanding that this system was put in place during the Muslim period of the Alpujarras, based on knowledge from Middle-Eastern dynasties whose people relocated to Spain. That seems to match the "Islamic Golden Age" period described in the article
- agumonkey 3y agoso they use the mountain as a buffer to delay flow until summer ?
- brutusborn 3y agoAnd to filter the water.
- bigthymer 3y agoAnd for air conditioning Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher#:~:text=A%20windcatcher%20and%20qanat%20used%20for%20cooling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher#:~:text=A%20windca...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- falaki 3y agoThat "Islamic Golden Age" is a complete misnomer. It hides the religious diversity of the geography. Many don't know that it took many centuries for the majority of the population of the Iranian plateau to convert to Islam. For a good part of what is referred to as "Islamic Golden Age" Islam was not the dominant religion. Similar story applies to India. Up until 17th century, India was ruled by "muslim" rulers. Should all the cultural and scientific achievements of that period be attributed to "Islam?"
- breezingfast 3y ago[dead]
- TulliusCicero 3y agoIslamic Golden Age I find is less about attributing results to Islam, and more just a shorthand to referring to certain parts of the world currently known as "the Islamic World". And yeah the idea is that they were Islamic at that time, and maybe that's not entirely accurate, but it's not as much "this happened specifically because of Islam".
- ROTMetro 3y agoSo a useless word that could be replaced by stating the geographic name of the 'certain parts of the world' referred to. Seems like an artificial name the muddies/pollutes the topic rather than enlightens. The Spanish inquisition started in 1478, Spain threw off the muslim invaders in 1492. Should we call it the Islamic Spanish Inquisition, since Islamic is such an interchangeable term?
- alphakappa 3y agoSorry to be pedantic, but not up until, but from the 15th century or so (Babur) until some time in the 18th century (Battle of Plassey). And not all of India but a northern region. Indian history and geography are just too vast to be contained in simple phrases (including what I said above)
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- dr_dshiv 3y ago> Persepolis Fortification Tablets, dated back to 492–457 BC in the reign of Darius the Great, are characteristic examples of the Achaemenid records, most of which have not been translated (Root, 1997). Of the ~30,000 clay tablets (10,000 intact pieces, 10,000 more or less complete ones, and probably more than 10,000 fragments), 2100 texts were transcribed, interpreted, and published (Jones and Stolper, 2008) This is a great example of something I wish more people knew— there exist so many historical texts that are untranslated. I work on Latin and Greek texts—I just can’t believe the stuff that has never been translated.
- falaki 3y agoAnother shocking historical fact: cuneiform script was first deciphered using the Behistun Inscription, which has the same text in three different languages. But then, Persian texts were completely ignored by historians and all the attention shifted to other Mesopotamian tablets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behistun_Inscription https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behistun_Inscription
- ybinator604g3 3y agoMaybe a bit off topic but it's always strange when someone says "Islamic Golden Age" when talking about Iran. Nothing against a specific religion. It's like saying Newton's work came during Christian Golden Age in Europe. The religion had nothing to do with it. In fact, there is a book [1] (in Persian) title "Two Centuries of Silence" that talks about the significant blow to Iran's culture, literature and science after Arab invasion [2] that it took two hundred years to somehow get back on track. [1] https://web.sas.upenn.edu/persian/2018/09/06/talk-two-centuries-of-silence-abdulhossein-zarrinkoub-and-the-formation-of-iranian-national-identity/ https://web.sas.upenn.edu/persian/2018/09/06/talk-two-centur... [2] Since I've mentioned this, I need to add that the focus of my statement is the nature of such "invasion" and not a certain ethnicity. No malicious intent here. If you are an Arab and reading this, hello neighbors! with love from Iran :)
- BuffaloBagel 3y agoI think Persians of that era would not make a distinction between religious and governmental rule.
- ybinator604g3 3y agoCould you please elaborate?
- someotherperson 3y agoPersian influence was incredibly important, in fact the Islamic Golden Age is marked by Persian customs being absorbed into daily living with the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate. So if you're feeling like it's taking value away from Persian history, instead, try to see it from the perspective that Persians are a large part of the reason why the Golden Age is even a thing :)
- ybinator604g3 3y agoThe other day I was watching Neil deGrasse Tyson on Joe Rogan show and he was talking about Islamic Science and how Algebra, Astronomy, etc. come from Islam. I was baffled as an Iranian. I get that there is this anti muslim rhetoric lurking around and these people are trying to fight it. I assume they are well intentioned but in doing so they are doing the same thing that they advocate against. But I like your point of view.
- bsnnkv 3y agoI found it interesting that despite the protests in the comments from users who appear to be Iranian, the authors of this paper, who decided on the use of the term "Islamic Golden Age", themselves both appear to be Iranian based on their names (Saatsaz = Watchmaker/Horologist) and the transcription style used (Rezaei).
- ROTMetro 3y agoIt's the 'standard term used' so makes sense that it is used. The discussion here is does it make sense? I know that until I studied Persian history it very much alienated my thinking from that part of the world, and made me think of them as other. I was also taught the ignorance of christian thought of that period (referring to mainly the actions of Germanic groups) versus the superior enlightened 'Islamic Golden Age' that happened to leave out that many of those enlightened scholars were Christian and that their thinking was perfectly compatible with Christianity. It seems artificially divide and NOT do a pretty poor job accurately reflecting the people/scholars/scientific movement it is used to describe.
- lasfter 3y agoThe fact that the authors are still residing within Iran may also play a role in how much they attribute to Islam.
- staplar 3y agoIran is a treasure trove of knowledge and culture, of various people. I kind of don’t blame their current rulers on some issues, especially when both of your neighbours were invaded and occupied by modern imperialist.
- NemoNobody 3y agoThe issue I most have with terminology like "blank's Golden Age" is that it heavily implies a complete scope of an exactly defined thing but it's often used to describe nostalgia for something ongoing - something incomplete, which it can't be bc it's scope is undefined and so no "best part" exists yet bc new parts are still coming - like "The Golden Age of Cinema" could easily be ahead of us for a stupid example that also demonstrates it's overuse and misuse. Who knows - maybe Islam will evolve into something more commercially viable, more able to adapt Western culture, and eventually become the most dominant global religion. That all could be only a prophet away - history is full of them, we're likely due. I know the Author doesn't think that a future golden age will happen but I don't like to count chickens. People may disagree with when exactly was the Golden Age of the Roman Empire but it most certainly isn't a future date. tl;dr - I dislike non-historical "golden ages"