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Isn't it almost impossible to become an apprentice electrician if you don't have family connections to unions? A few comments from this Reddit thread: https://o

Isn't it almost impossible to become an apprentice electrician if you don't have family connections to unions? A few comments from this Reddit thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/104fooe/america_needs_carpenters_and_plumbers_try_telling/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/104fooe/america_... > It’s hard, because the formally decent paying apprentice programs pay has stayed about the same while working, fast food or whatever has gone up a lot. Working at Taco Bell for $18 an hour is less physically demanding than being a grunt laborer for 15. > Our local IBEW apprentices start at $19/hr with another 9.50/hr in benefits. First raise is an extra $2 on the check and another $2 in benefits after 1000 hours or roughly 6 months. > I almost accepted a plumbing apprenticeship when I was 26 but the starting wage was so low I just wouldn’t have been able to live. If I could go back in time though I’d try getting into a trade or automotive work by 18. > I tried becoming an electrician after the military. No where had any interest in taking on an apprentice. > One friend of mine saved and left her corporate job to become an electrician, only to find boomer electricians wouldn’t apprentice a woman. Just one anecdote, of course. > I got out of the Army, and tried to join the local union as an apprentice. It was a 6-8 months selection process before I could even start. It took longer and was more challenging to try and get into a trade then the military. > The trades pay shite. I’m a third term apprentice and it’s hard work for not much more than McDonald’s. Maybe the whole journeyman/apprentice system needs to be dismantled.

denimnerd42 3y ago
Yup.. the system takes forever to advance through. If you don't start at 18 it's hard to justify doing. Regulations need to be changed but I don't see that happening.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
CaliforniaKarl 3y ago
One of the best High Volt electricians we have at work is a woman. She’s an integral part of keeping out data centers working, and we’re actively hiring for an apprentice High Volt electrician!
jandrese 3y ago
The funny thing is the rate charged to customers has skyrocketed in the past decade, yet the wages for the electricians are apparently stagnant?
- vkou 3y ago
  Middlemen and managers are pocketing the difference. When you hear about tradespeople pulling in mid-six figures, they generally aren't in the trenches, laying down pipes or wiring cables.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Productivity and wages (across the board, not just electricians) diverged around 1980. https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-growing-employer-power-have-generated-a-productivity-pay-gap-since-1979-productivity-has-grown-3-5-times-as-much-as-pay-for-the-typical-worker/ https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-gro...
  - JustSomeNobody 3y ago
    It never trickled down. It floated up.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  More central management with large shops/conglomerates/chains, fewer small shops and independents, maybe? You know, "market efficiency".
  - geodel 3y ago
    Yup, leveraging the synergy all the way.
- JustSomeNobody 3y ago
  That's the case with so many things. If a nickel can be squeezed out of the working class and diverted to the wealthy, it surely will.
- 3y ago
bsder 3y ago
California IBEW seems to start an apprentice at $27 and goes up to $54. Seems eminently reasonable?
- GalenErso 3y ago
  $27 in a HCOL state like California in 2023 is ... not great, even for an entry-level position.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    A friend is a journeyman lineman in NorCal and makes ~$300k/year + pension rebuilding PG&E infra. Lives in a lovely rural $800k home. Started his career climbing poles in Illinois, straight out of high school.
    - akavi 3y ago
      Your friend is a massive outlier in the pay distribution of electricians. He's either gaming the overtime system somehow, or has a unique set of specialized skills (or some regulatory arbitrage combo of both).
      - SoftTalker 3y ago
        Have you seen what linemen do? Work with heavy transmission lines dozens or hundreds of feet in the air, at night, in the rain, etc. They earn every penny of whatever they make IMO.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Based on the state of PG&E infra from public records and committed capex/infra spend, I'm more inclined to believe the overtime is warranted due to This Is All Terrible And Will Take Decades To Fix. I'll ask! Where there is chaos, there is usually money to be made. https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/2022/10/safety-investigation-faults-pges-failure-maintain-aging https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/2022/10/safet... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/11/pge-power-shutdown-california/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/11/pge-power-shutdown-calif... https://www.naturalgasintel.com/pge-bets-big-on-infrastructure-projects-to-move-utility-into-new-era/ https://www.naturalgasintel.com/pge-bets-big-on-infrastructu... https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/about-pge/environment/what-we-are-doing/electric-program-investment-charge/2021-EPIC-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/about-pge/environ...
mcbishop 3y ago
My hack was to offer two months of free work to a local electrician (I was fortunate to be able to do that). He took me up on it, and it worked out. He and I now have an arrangement where I can do my own electrical (solar) projects under his license (with his availability for questions) for a flat per-project fee. ...This pays much better than the hourly rate as an employed apprentice.
rossdavidh 3y ago
Varies a lot by state. I have a friend (was ringbearer at my wedding when he was a wee lad), and he did a lot of research on which state to go through this in (he chose Colorado, btw). The journeyman/apprentice system, for all its problems, is probably a net bonus to the lifetime wages, since it prevents a huge surge of new entrants in a short time. Also, although it may not be all we would want, it does probably prevent the worst safety/incompetence concerns that we would have if it were left to the market (since people hiring electricians often don't have the knowledge to tell if they are competent or not).

denimnerd42 3y ago

Yup.. the system takes forever to advance through. If you don't start at 18 it's hard to justify doing. Regulations need to be changed but I don't see that happening.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

CaliforniaKarl 3y ago

One of the best High Volt electricians we have at work is a woman. She’s an integral part of keeping out data centers working, and we’re actively hiring for an apprentice High Volt electrician!

jandrese 3y ago

The funny thing is the rate charged to customers has skyrocketed in the past decade, yet the wages for the electricians are apparently stagnant?

vkou 3y ago
Middlemen and managers are pocketing the difference. When you hear about tradespeople pulling in mid-six figures, they generally aren't in the trenches, laying down pipes or wiring cables.
ceejayoz 3y ago
Productivity and wages (across the board, not just electricians) diverged around 1980. https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-growing-employer-power-have-generated-a-productivity-pay-gap-since-1979-productivity-has-grown-3-5-times-as-much-as-pay-for-the-typical-worker/ https://www.epi.org/blog/growing-inequalities-reflecting-gro...
- JustSomeNobody 3y ago
  It never trickled down. It floated up.
yamtaddle 3y ago
More central management with large shops/conglomerates/chains, fewer small shops and independents, maybe? You know, "market efficiency".
- geodel 3y ago
  Yup, leveraging the synergy all the way.
JustSomeNobody 3y ago
That's the case with so many things. If a nickel can be squeezed out of the working class and diverted to the wealthy, it surely will.
3y ago

bsder 3y ago

California IBEW seems to start an apprentice at $27 and goes up to $54. Seems eminently reasonable?

GalenErso 3y ago
$27 in a HCOL state like California in 2023 is ... not great, even for an entry-level position.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  A friend is a journeyman lineman in NorCal and makes ~$300k/year + pension rebuilding PG&E infra. Lives in a lovely rural $800k home. Started his career climbing poles in Illinois, straight out of high school.
  - akavi 3y ago
    Your friend is a massive outlier in the pay distribution of electricians. He's either gaming the overtime system somehow, or has a unique set of specialized skills (or some regulatory arbitrage combo of both).
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      Have you seen what linemen do? Work with heavy transmission lines dozens or hundreds of feet in the air, at night, in the rain, etc. They earn every penny of whatever they make IMO.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Based on the state of PG&E infra from public records and committed capex/infra spend, I'm more inclined to believe the overtime is warranted due to This Is All Terrible And Will Take Decades To Fix. I'll ask! Where there is chaos, there is usually money to be made. https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/2022/10/safety-investigation-faults-pges-failure-maintain-aging https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/2022/10/safet... https://theintercept.com/2019/10/11/pge-power-shutdown-california/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/11/pge-power-shutdown-calif... https://www.naturalgasintel.com/pge-bets-big-on-infrastructure-projects-to-move-utility-into-new-era/ https://www.naturalgasintel.com/pge-bets-big-on-infrastructu... https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/about-pge/environment/what-we-are-doing/electric-program-investment-charge/2021-EPIC-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/about-pge/environ...

mcbishop 3y ago

My hack was to offer two months of free work to a local electrician (I was fortunate to be able to do that). He took me up on it, and it worked out. He and I now have an arrangement where I can do my own electrical (solar) projects under his license (with his availability for questions) for a flat per-project fee. ...This pays much better than the hourly rate as an employed apprentice.

rossdavidh 3y ago

Varies a lot by state. I have a friend (was ringbearer at my wedding when he was a wee lad), and he did a lot of research on which state to go through this in (he chose Colorado, btw). The journeyman/apprentice system, for all its problems, is probably a net bonus to the lifetime wages, since it prevents a huge surge of new entrants in a short time. Also, although it may not be all we would want, it does probably prevent the worst safety/incompetence concerns that we would have if it were left to the market (since people hiring electricians often don't have the knowledge to tell if they are competent or not).