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Don’t retail stores in Europe use in-store analytics? These often employ cameras to track shoppers when they are in the store. They use sentiment analysis to fi

Don’t retail stores in Europe use in-store analytics? These often employ cameras to track shoppers when they are in the store. They use sentiment analysis to figure out what shoppers like, the cameras look for people lingering more than usual and alert security, they use it to track how people move through the store to optimize layout, and when you finally pull out your credit card and buy something, they can link up your real world identity with all the footage they’ve just captured. I think it’s pretty gross, but without government actions like this it will not stop. > neither seems well-defined enough to easily ban Seems like it would be easy enough to define. If an image or any other kind of data generated from an image is used in the process to identify a person, then you are doing facial recognition.

InCityDreams 4y ago
A link would be useful: there are rumours eu shopping centers are tracking (anonymously!) cell-phone routes through shopping centers; some places have sensors outside there windows to track foot tracffic and window shoppers but I've never heard of actual tracking of customers via facials: I rather suspect that would be a PR disaster. Nb - I alwaysys turn off my phone when going into shopping centers.
- criddell 4y ago
  https://www.cyberlink.com/faceme/insights/articles/363/smart-retail-with-facial-recognition https://www.cyberlink.com/faceme/insights/articles/363/smart... If you search for “in store analytics” you will find a lot more. This article is a decent overview though and has a few links.
fwlr 4y ago
Some of the stuff you listed under “in-store analytics” is more like “in-store statistics”, the kind of privacy problems addressed by this bill/proclamation don’t seem related to analyzing CCTV footage to optimize store layout or determine which products are popular, and it doesn’t seem like either the reporting or the politicking here is concerned with that. If they are then taking that information and trying to tie it to an identity based on credit card purchases, I do agree that’s gross and I wouldn’t object very hard if governments tried to stop that from happening (though I’m skeptical that facial recognition is doing much of the work in this paradigm, and I’m also skeptical that it works at all - most of this “know your customer” stuff is compelled by regulatory compliance, and the other stuff that is sold as improving conversion tends to be vaporware that fails to materialize real benefit). >If an image … is used in the process to identify a person, then you are doing facial recognition This is an easy definition of facial recognition that is very hard to ban! Police departments are doing facial recognition to catch criminals by this definition, and I don’t mean this in some narrow technical “well actually” sense: I mean that e.g. detectives in metro cities are given large binders of face pictures of many pickpockets and other criminals, they study these faces and train to recognize them in a crowd, and they go out in public aiming to recognize them. But my point was not that facial recognition is hard to define, my point was that “facial recognition technology” and “private facial recognition databases” and “predictive policing” are weird categories or distinctions to make.
- Tozen 4y ago
  Various police departments are also abusing facial recognition as undisclosed primary evidence and putting the wrong people in jail, in addition to destroying lives and forcing people to prove innocence after being assumed guilty. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/technology/facial-recognition-misidentify-jail.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/technology/facial-recogni... (Another Arrest, and Jail Time, Due to a Bad Facial Recognition Match) https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/facial-recognition-error-led-to-wrongful-arrest-of-black-man-report-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/facial-recogniti... (Black man wrongfully jailed for a week after face recognition error) https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to-his-arrest-it-was-dead-wrong/ https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to... (Face Recognition Software Led to His Arrest. It Was Dead Wrong)
  - fwlr 4y ago
    I’m aware - I used to work on facial recognition technology for law enforcement.
2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
In Finland, at least, the most common way is to get people to download an app, or join a bonus club. I'm sure they use visual analytics too, but identifying store visitors means storing personal data, which you can't do without explicit consent.
- criddell 4y ago
  Are you talking about the GPDR? In Finland, are you allowed to store personal information? Can you maintain an address book or contact information on your phone? Does the law distinguish between commercial and non-commercial uses of personal information?
  - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
    It applies to systematic collection and processing of personal data.

InCityDreams 4y ago

A link would be useful: there are rumours eu shopping centers are tracking (anonymously!) cell-phone routes through shopping centers; some places have sensors outside there windows to track foot tracffic and window shoppers but I've never heard of actual tracking of customers via facials: I rather suspect that would be a PR disaster. Nb - I alwaysys turn off my phone when going into shopping centers.

criddell 4y ago
https://www.cyberlink.com/faceme/insights/articles/363/smart-retail-with-facial-recognition https://www.cyberlink.com/faceme/insights/articles/363/smart... If you search for “in store analytics” you will find a lot more. This article is a decent overview though and has a few links.

fwlr 4y ago

Some of the stuff you listed under “in-store analytics” is more like “in-store statistics”, the kind of privacy problems addressed by this bill/proclamation don’t seem related to analyzing CCTV footage to optimize store layout or determine which products are popular, and it doesn’t seem like either the reporting or the politicking here is concerned with that. If they are then taking that information and trying to tie it to an identity based on credit card purchases, I do agree that’s gross and I wouldn’t object very hard if governments tried to stop that from happening (though I’m skeptical that facial recognition is doing much of the work in this paradigm, and I’m also skeptical that it works at all - most of this “know your customer” stuff is compelled by regulatory compliance, and the other stuff that is sold as improving conversion tends to be vaporware that fails to materialize real benefit). >If an image … is used in the process to identify a person, then you are doing facial recognition This is an easy definition of facial recognition that is very hard to ban! Police departments are doing facial recognition to catch criminals by this definition, and I don’t mean this in some narrow technical “well actually” sense: I mean that e.g. detectives in metro cities are given large binders of face pictures of many pickpockets and other criminals, they study these faces and train to recognize them in a crowd, and they go out in public aiming to recognize them. But my point was not that facial recognition is hard to define, my point was that “facial recognition technology” and “private facial recognition databases” and “predictive policing” are weird categories or distinctions to make.

Tozen 4y ago
Various police departments are also abusing facial recognition as undisclosed primary evidence and putting the wrong people in jail, in addition to destroying lives and forcing people to prove innocence after being assumed guilty. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/technology/facial-recognition-misidentify-jail.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/technology/facial-recogni... (Another Arrest, and Jail Time, Due to a Bad Facial Recognition Match) https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/facial-recognition-error-led-to-wrongful-arrest-of-black-man-report-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/facial-recogniti... (Black man wrongfully jailed for a week after face recognition error) https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to-his-arrest-it-was-dead-wrong/ https://www.wired.com/story/face-recognition-software-led-to... (Face Recognition Software Led to His Arrest. It Was Dead Wrong)
- fwlr 4y ago
  I’m aware - I used to work on facial recognition technology for law enforcement.

2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago

In Finland, at least, the most common way is to get people to download an app, or join a bonus club. I'm sure they use visual analytics too, but identifying store visitors means storing personal data, which you can't do without explicit consent.

criddell 4y ago
Are you talking about the GPDR? In Finland, are you allowed to store personal information? Can you maintain an address book or contact information on your phone? Does the law distinguish between commercial and non-commercial uses of personal information?
- 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
  It applies to systematic collection and processing of personal data.