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I have also been using make for the past few years, and since then whenever I jump on a new project, right away I get the readme and commands needed to do stuff

I have also been using make for the past few years, and since then whenever I jump on a new project, right away I get the readme and commands needed to do stuff with a project, and put them in a Makefile, and people start loving me right away. It's baffling to me how easy but ignored is make and how people accept to write / remember un-mnemonick commands without looking for alternatives/solutions

thechao 4y ago
For C(++), I use make and ccache. I can just use `find` to place a naive dependency of every header file on every C file; and, `*.d` files (from clang/gcc): I get nearly perfect incremental builds, without file updates breaking the build, in parallel. Totally bulletproof and works on all the Unixen I care about (Linux, macOS, BSD).
- aemonfly 4y ago
  very interesting, any more details?
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  I see what you say, and also understand the amount of time / boredness you save with this simple setup, that between us, is simple simple no? But you go around and people maybe stay at the PC waiting for compilation forever and accept to wait forever, despite that being one search/doc read away.. it's really baffling.. and keeps me thinking now maybe it's that the reason why people consider linux/bsd hard non-user friendly systems, because it's either you throw the solution at them, or they would just ignore how simple is something and how would change their productivity / workflow by orders of magnitude I had a makefile a while ago that would incrementally build docker containers based on containers metadata (for the dockerfile content hash) and would update those changed automatically, and it took like 2 minutes, instead of complaining while waiting, it's crazy how much simplicity is just ignored
throwaway290 4y ago
Careful-- there only thing worse than no makefile is unmaintained and outdated makefile full of dark magic and obscure shorthands.
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  Yeah but it's like a good reasoning valid for just about everything, like code that is undocumented or abandoned because people have left is just as bad, but that doesn't make us stop writing applications? Everything is good or bad depending on developer's attitude.. I don't really feel your point specific for Makefile or as discouraging about Makefiles..?
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    It does (or should) make us write less code if possible;) Not arguing makefile has value but I worked on legacy projects with makefiles that break in mysterious ways and in those cases I would take the same stuff with hows and whys spelled out in plain English instead!

thechao 4y ago

For C(++), I use make and ccache. I can just use `find` to place a naive dependency of every header file on every C file; and, `*.d` files (from clang/gcc): I get nearly perfect incremental builds, without file updates breaking the build, in parallel. Totally bulletproof and works on all the Unixen I care about (Linux, macOS, BSD).

aemonfly 4y ago
very interesting, any more details?
lnxg33k1 4y ago
I see what you say, and also understand the amount of time / boredness you save with this simple setup, that between us, is simple simple no? But you go around and people maybe stay at the PC waiting for compilation forever and accept to wait forever, despite that being one search/doc read away.. it's really baffling.. and keeps me thinking now maybe it's that the reason why people consider linux/bsd hard non-user friendly systems, because it's either you throw the solution at them, or they would just ignore how simple is something and how would change their productivity / workflow by orders of magnitude I had a makefile a while ago that would incrementally build docker containers based on containers metadata (for the dockerfile content hash) and would update those changed automatically, and it took like 2 minutes, instead of complaining while waiting, it's crazy how much simplicity is just ignored

throwaway290 4y ago

Careful-- there only thing worse than no makefile is unmaintained and outdated makefile full of dark magic and obscure shorthands.

lnxg33k1 4y ago
Yeah but it's like a good reasoning valid for just about everything, like code that is undocumented or abandoned because people have left is just as bad, but that doesn't make us stop writing applications? Everything is good or bad depending on developer's attitude.. I don't really feel your point specific for Makefile or as discouraging about Makefiles..?
- throwaway290 4y ago
  It does (or should) make us write less code if possible;) Not arguing makefile has value but I worked on legacy projects with makefiles that break in mysterious ways and in those cases I would take the same stuff with hows and whys spelled out in plain English instead!