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i laughed at doctolib revolutionizing appointments. do you know how they started? by being buddies with the government not byhaving revolutionnary tech. online

i laughed at doctolib revolutionizing appointments. do you know how they started? by being buddies with the government not byhaving revolutionnary tech. online appointment booking exist for years in some most developped countries. the first time they got lot of user on their platform it went down. thats no revolution that is typical old europe style of innovation where you innovate because u get the market for free thanks to your buddies in the gov. that is also why public it systems suck so much in france, ecause they push for the IT companies giving money to their party and put their buddies in position not to innovate but to get a nice check and bill lot of money for bare maintenance.oh and the platform is awful no way to differentiate a practician from another, no way to give feedback, interactions are limited to robot-like interactions and you cant deviate from the script, id argue it made everything worse because now many doctors dont have assistants as everything is handled by doctolib which reduce the way for normal people and elderly people to interacte with their practitioners office. its typical of the current gov btw, destroying public service, or at best keeping it in life support (ameli) , scrapping its data and allowing a company and its shareholder to maie millions out of it while the company looses millions (obviously except the shareholders that were early enough and are really tight to officials)

sofixa 4y ago
That was a wild and complicated read, please consider using paragraphs and better structure next time. Doctolib have been massive since well before the current government came into power, so what the hell are you blaming them for? The contract for Covid vaccine appointments? If that's the first time you heard of them, you're not representative of the French population at large. And yes, it absolutely made sense to give a contract to a company that can deliver now (with hiccups at the beginning) instead of wasting time on developing something from scratch. Yes, many doctors don't have assistants nowadays, which makes the experience better for 90%+ of the population and saves on admin costs. The UX of a few clicks in an app (where you can differentiate doctors of course) is much better than calling, waiting for someone to pick up, and then negotiating dates while they're pressed. Also, doctors' offices (where there are a few doctors sharing space) usually still have assistants, as do clinics and the like, so for those that can't use an app there are still alternatives. As for the public IT systems, you have got to be kidding. I came to France in 2012, and I can tell you that in the last 10 years there have been massive improvements in public IT. Most of it is actually good and usable - France Connect, ANTS, Impots, Ameli, etc. are a breeze. You can schedule appointments, do administrative stuff (like order new documents, submit tax info) quite easily and accessibly. Urssaf's website for autoentrepreneurs could be better though. Ah, the good old "the current government is destroying public services". Which services, exactly? Ameli's budget has been steadily increasing every year under the current government, since well before the pandemic. With less than what they ask for, but still increasing.
- retinaros 4y ago
  the current gov is the previous gov… and macron has been in the,government before the previous one as its economy minister (and he was widely considered as its most important member) and before that he was in the comission atali under sakorzy. so we have the same people and the same school of thought governing france since 2008. and guess what ? theres a reason our gdp per ppp did not move from 2008 while other countries got wealthier. our wealth got distributed to shareholders of companies like doctolib so that you can praise how good it is to book online a random doctor - again with no way to get feedback or review from patient like in the us system for instance - then struggle even more to get a first appointment because doctors dont take new patients and now that everything is digital you cant even go there or call to discuss your case. i reckon its better for you as a foreigner that did not live in france to see how it was before. 10 years in france and,you know already what is best for 90% of its people, you either shareholder of doctolib or linked to the gov. every IT person at ameli would tell you they ve been gutted, their data scrapped by doctolib . doctolib only exist because massive money went in so that private shareholder can get wealthy using french citizen health data and you see it as progress?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > the current gov is the previous gov… and macron has been in the,government before the previous one as its economy minister (and he was widely considered as its most important member) and before that he was in the comission atali under sakorzy. so we have the same people and the same school of thought governing france since 2008. That's a very big stretch and also false. Macron was only appointed as minister of Finance in 2014, 3 years into Hollande's term, and it only happened because Hollande's initial financial and economic policies were turning out to be disastrous so a change was needed. > and guess what ? theres a reason our gdp per ppp did not move from 2008 while other countries got wealthier. our wealth got distributed to shareholders I think you need to update your talking points, GDP PPP has been going up (Covid being an exception) since the Macron years: https://www.worldeconomics.com/GrossDomesticProduct/Real-GDP-PPP/France.aspx https://www.worldeconomics.com/GrossDomesticProduct/Real-GDP... > then struggle even more to get a first appointment because doctors dont take new patients and now that everything is digital you cant even go there or call to discuss your case You're confusing problems. There not being enough doctors and them not taking in new patients had nothing to do with "digital" or not. It's just that with "digital" you can actually know in advance when you can get a meeting with which doctor instead of having to make the rounds calling or visiting all doctors in your area. You cannot seriously tell me that this is a bad thing. And again, clinics and cabinets of multiple doctors still have assistants that you can call or visit to talk to if you prefer a slower and suboptimal way of doing things. > reckon its better for you as a foreigner that did not live in france to see how it was before When I arrived, universally all public IT systems were just shit. Like from a bad movie, designed by people who hadn't come close to computers, and written by people who won't use them and couldn't care any less. Again, ANTS, Impôts, Ameli, all those are new(or renewed) and with seamless making it easy to do basic administrative stuff without having to get an appointment at an office that only works 10-11:30 on Tuesdays on the third week of months, on a website that falls down every time there are more than 5 people on it (that was the case with my prefecture). > doctolib only exist because massive money went in so that private shareholder can get wealthy using french citizen health data They're not "using french citizen data", they're providing a service that uses it. Also, you keep saying "shareholders getting wealthier".. you know that Doctolib is private and thus we don't know about their financials and it's "shareholders", which btw includes Bpifrance (state investment bank), aren't wealthier for it?

sofixa 4y ago

That was a wild and complicated read, please consider using paragraphs and better structure next time. Doctolib have been massive since well before the current government came into power, so what the hell are you blaming them for? The contract for Covid vaccine appointments? If that's the first time you heard of them, you're not representative of the French population at large. And yes, it absolutely made sense to give a contract to a company that can deliver now (with hiccups at the beginning) instead of wasting time on developing something from scratch. Yes, many doctors don't have assistants nowadays, which makes the experience better for 90%+ of the population and saves on admin costs. The UX of a few clicks in an app (where you can differentiate doctors of course) is much better than calling, waiting for someone to pick up, and then negotiating dates while they're pressed. Also, doctors' offices (where there are a few doctors sharing space) usually still have assistants, as do clinics and the like, so for those that can't use an app there are still alternatives. As for the public IT systems, you have got to be kidding. I came to France in 2012, and I can tell you that in the last 10 years there have been massive improvements in public IT. Most of it is actually good and usable - France Connect, ANTS, Impots, Ameli, etc. are a breeze. You can schedule appointments, do administrative stuff (like order new documents, submit tax info) quite easily and accessibly. Urssaf's website for autoentrepreneurs could be better though. Ah, the good old "the current government is destroying public services". Which services, exactly? Ameli's budget has been steadily increasing every year under the current government, since well before the pandemic. With less than what they ask for, but still increasing.

retinaros 4y ago
the current gov is the previous gov… and macron has been in the,government before the previous one as its economy minister (and he was widely considered as its most important member) and before that he was in the comission atali under sakorzy. so we have the same people and the same school of thought governing france since 2008. and guess what ? theres a reason our gdp per ppp did not move from 2008 while other countries got wealthier. our wealth got distributed to shareholders of companies like doctolib so that you can praise how good it is to book online a random doctor - again with no way to get feedback or review from patient like in the us system for instance - then struggle even more to get a first appointment because doctors dont take new patients and now that everything is digital you cant even go there or call to discuss your case. i reckon its better for you as a foreigner that did not live in france to see how it was before. 10 years in france and,you know already what is best for 90% of its people, you either shareholder of doctolib or linked to the gov. every IT person at ameli would tell you they ve been gutted, their data scrapped by doctolib . doctolib only exist because massive money went in so that private shareholder can get wealthy using french citizen health data and you see it as progress?
- sofixa 4y ago
  > the current gov is the previous gov… and macron has been in the,government before the previous one as its economy minister (and he was widely considered as its most important member) and before that he was in the comission atali under sakorzy. so we have the same people and the same school of thought governing france since 2008. That's a very big stretch and also false. Macron was only appointed as minister of Finance in 2014, 3 years into Hollande's term, and it only happened because Hollande's initial financial and economic policies were turning out to be disastrous so a change was needed. > and guess what ? theres a reason our gdp per ppp did not move from 2008 while other countries got wealthier. our wealth got distributed to shareholders I think you need to update your talking points, GDP PPP has been going up (Covid being an exception) since the Macron years: https://www.worldeconomics.com/GrossDomesticProduct/Real-GDP-PPP/France.aspx https://www.worldeconomics.com/GrossDomesticProduct/Real-GDP... > then struggle even more to get a first appointment because doctors dont take new patients and now that everything is digital you cant even go there or call to discuss your case You're confusing problems. There not being enough doctors and them not taking in new patients had nothing to do with "digital" or not. It's just that with "digital" you can actually know in advance when you can get a meeting with which doctor instead of having to make the rounds calling or visiting all doctors in your area. You cannot seriously tell me that this is a bad thing. And again, clinics and cabinets of multiple doctors still have assistants that you can call or visit to talk to if you prefer a slower and suboptimal way of doing things. > reckon its better for you as a foreigner that did not live in france to see how it was before When I arrived, universally all public IT systems were just shit. Like from a bad movie, designed by people who hadn't come close to computers, and written by people who won't use them and couldn't care any less. Again, ANTS, Impôts, Ameli, all those are new(or renewed) and with seamless making it easy to do basic administrative stuff without having to get an appointment at an office that only works 10-11:30 on Tuesdays on the third week of months, on a website that falls down every time there are more than 5 people on it (that was the case with my prefecture). > doctolib only exist because massive money went in so that private shareholder can get wealthy using french citizen health data They're not "using french citizen data", they're providing a service that uses it. Also, you keep saying "shareholders getting wealthier".. you know that Doctolib is private and thus we don't know about their financials and it's "shareholders", which btw includes Bpifrance (state investment bank), aren't wealthier for it?