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To ban end-to-end encryption you effectively need to ban math. Even if all messaging apps will remove built-in encryption function you can still use e2ee in you

To ban end-to-end encryption you effectively need to ban math. Even if all messaging apps will remove built-in encryption function you can still use e2ee in your keyboard app or something that would seamlessly decrypt incoming messages and encrypt outgoing messages on the fly.

night-rider 4y ago
Or they could license strong cryptography to organizations that need it like banks & fintech. The 'banning' part means the ordinary citizenry can't use it except for online banking.
jeroenhd 4y ago
Key escrow and other three-way encryption algorithms exist. You wouldn't want to use them in any normal circumstances, but there's no technical reason why you couldn't. A key for you, your recipient, and your friendly government agent. Very few people actually write cryptographic code, and even fewer write code that is safe to use. I doubt many people will bother with some kind of messenger hook/overlay keyboard to supplant the native messenger encryption. After all, in some countries SMS/MMS is still in use and nobody seems to care about encryption there.
- jonathanstrange 4y ago
  That depends on how easy to use you make this kind of software. An app that makes the soft keyboard produce encrypted output on the fly could indeed become a popular solution until it's prohibited. Like always, the problem is key exchange, though.
Retr0id 4y ago
They can't stop people from doing math, but they can stop people from sharing high-entropy (i.e. "looks encrypted") data. There are of course workarounds (e.g. steganography), but if you add enough friction then the average person won't bother, and those who do try to maintain their privacy will be at even greater risk of detection and punishment.
jonathanstrange 4y ago
Sadly it suffices for them to get direct government access to the endpoints. They already have that for targeted surveillance, laws like this proposal just add the possibility of mandating interfaces for total automatic mass surveillance of all endpoints when foreign device manufacturers don't fully comply. Developing or buying 0-day exploits for iPhones is cumbersome and expensive, so the law steps in.

night-rider 4y ago

Or they could license strong cryptography to organizations that need it like banks & fintech. The 'banning' part means the ordinary citizenry can't use it except for online banking.

jeroenhd 4y ago

Key escrow and other three-way encryption algorithms exist. You wouldn't want to use them in any normal circumstances, but there's no technical reason why you couldn't. A key for you, your recipient, and your friendly government agent. Very few people actually write cryptographic code, and even fewer write code that is safe to use. I doubt many people will bother with some kind of messenger hook/overlay keyboard to supplant the native messenger encryption. After all, in some countries SMS/MMS is still in use and nobody seems to care about encryption there.

jonathanstrange 4y ago
That depends on how easy to use you make this kind of software. An app that makes the soft keyboard produce encrypted output on the fly could indeed become a popular solution until it's prohibited. Like always, the problem is key exchange, though.

Retr0id 4y ago

They can't stop people from doing math, but they can stop people from sharing high-entropy (i.e. "looks encrypted") data. There are of course workarounds (e.g. steganography), but if you add enough friction then the average person won't bother, and those who do try to maintain their privacy will be at even greater risk of detection and punishment.

jonathanstrange 4y ago

Sadly it suffices for them to get direct government access to the endpoints. They already have that for targeted surveillance, laws like this proposal just add the possibility of mandating interfaces for total automatic mass surveillance of all endpoints when foreign device manufacturers don't fully comply. Developing or buying 0-day exploits for iPhones is cumbersome and expensive, so the law steps in.