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We should approach animal intelligence and communication with humility. A lot of it is based on smell, body language, and signals we don't pay attention to. I

We should approach animal intelligence and communication with humility. A lot of it is based on smell, body language, and signals we don't pay attention to. I don't think any animal has been shown to tell stories, but obviously they share information in other ways. Only a handful of individuals have demonstrated some kind of ability to understand a story (macaws and koko the gorilla). For anybody interested in animal intelligence, that's the focus of my newsletter.

jjtheblunt 3y ago
don't they speak of whales conveying long songs as if stories, largely complex and similar from "telling" to "telling"? what's going on there?
- ryanblakeley 3y ago
  That's a great place to look for story-telling, I just don't think it's been shown yet (I would love to be wrong about that). If you could decode in their language something about characters taking actions, time and place, past and future, that would be pretty incredible.
yboris 3y ago
Related: Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? by Frans De Waal https://www.amazon.com/Are-Smart-Enough-Know-Animals/dp/0393353664 https://www.amazon.com/Are-Smart-Enough-Know-Animals/dp/0393...
gerad 3y ago
Go to another country where you don’t speak the language and try to communicate. You’ll do it with gestures, body language, facial expressions, grunts, tones - not words. I’m guessing that’s a lot closer to how animals communicate than spoken language.
ddingus 3y ago
Animals do tell stories. Let's take a dog for example: The dog is out in the wild, away from it's pack. Ever see your dog smell something, or find something it finds interesting? Often, they will rub on it, or roll around in it. They do that so they have a record they can take with them. When said dog returns to their pack, their body holds these records. Their movements communicate their mood and the entire thing is a tale of the day. Another example I had happen was my cat. I would come home and the cat would want to get in the car. Then, if I got up to move, she would put a paw out, like "hold on a moment" and then she would inspect me everywhere, sniffing, looking at me, etc... The cat wanted my story! Where I went, was it the same strange animals and people, or different, when I last ate, and all sorts of stuff. In the evenings, that same cat would come to me, want to cuddle up in the evening and would be near my face, so I tried the same thing and guess what? It's a damn solid story! I now can smell my cat, watch it's movements and get a good sense of it's activity for the day. Back to the dogs. Having returned to the pack, the dog could tell the story of animals it encountered, possible food sources, enemies and other things by the scents it carried home to share with the others. In my view, our biggest struggle understanding animals comes down to both how much they are like us, just in simpler form, and how we fail to see that due to our higher complexity taking us away from basics that make more sense than we know. And with some animals, they are just very different from us, whales, dolphins, octopus and the like. All that said, I agree with you! Humility and an open mind are key to understanding animals better. Frankly, the same tools help us understand one another better.
- ryanblakeley 3y ago
  Yes, there's something interesting going on there with smells and body language. It's a matter of how flexible you want to be with the word "story". In a strict sense, there needs to be who, what, when, where, why, and how. I think some of those elements are there for other animals, but maybe not all of them, and maybe not an ability to ask clarifying questions.
  - ddingus 3y ago
    Yeah. Having discovered this dynamic through careful observation of my animals, story seems appropriate. A session with the cat yields: Who: Me What: Trip away from pack When: Today, more days maybe Where: Various places, work, car, outside places Why: Who knows what the cat thinks. She does differentiate a trip away from a food run How: in that moving thing And me with the cat: Who: Cat What: romp in flower beds or play with squirrels (they leave a different scent and the moss on the trees helps) Fight with that other cat. When: recently Where: grassy yard, trees, across the street Why: Cat bored playful finds squirrels. Enemy cat entered our territory, etc... How: On foot, maybe through fence. Given some time observing, smelling, listening, one can get a pretty great sense of the day! One other thing I should say is animals are like us, just simpler. Their every move communicates! They lack the layers of abstraction needed to make it otherwise. I can gather a lot from a few minutes spent close, feeling, watching, smelling, watching the cat move and vocalize. I find the whole thing remarkable! And it was the cat who educated me! If I pull up in the car and do not roll my window down, I get the look. If I do, then she is happy to jump in and exchange events of the day, essentially adding me to her story. The question sometimes happens. Usually, it is that paw on my chest when I get up to leave. Looks for all the world like, "hold on, I haven't got it all yet, or "this is new, WTF? Don't get me wrong. Not all animals are that high functioning. We have a couple and in my experience the more we try to interact and the less inhibited we are about all the ways, rubbing, smelling, etc... the more a higher functioning animal will respond with their own efforts. I only wish I had this insight earlier in life! My animal interactions are far more rich than they were before. Yes, let us flex these things a little and appreciate these beings here with us.

jjtheblunt 3y ago

don't they speak of whales conveying long songs as if stories, largely complex and similar from "telling" to "telling"? what's going on there?

ryanblakeley 3y ago
That's a great place to look for story-telling, I just don't think it's been shown yet (I would love to be wrong about that). If you could decode in their language something about characters taking actions, time and place, past and future, that would be pretty incredible.

yboris 3y ago

Related: Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? by Frans De Waal https://www.amazon.com/Are-Smart-Enough-Know-Animals/dp/0393353664 https://www.amazon.com/Are-Smart-Enough-Know-Animals/dp/0393...

gerad 3y ago

Go to another country where you don’t speak the language and try to communicate. You’ll do it with gestures, body language, facial expressions, grunts, tones - not words. I’m guessing that’s a lot closer to how animals communicate than spoken language.

ddingus 3y ago

Animals do tell stories. Let's take a dog for example: The dog is out in the wild, away from it's pack. Ever see your dog smell something, or find something it finds interesting? Often, they will rub on it, or roll around in it. They do that so they have a record they can take with them. When said dog returns to their pack, their body holds these records. Their movements communicate their mood and the entire thing is a tale of the day. Another example I had happen was my cat. I would come home and the cat would want to get in the car. Then, if I got up to move, she would put a paw out, like "hold on a moment" and then she would inspect me everywhere, sniffing, looking at me, etc... The cat wanted my story! Where I went, was it the same strange animals and people, or different, when I last ate, and all sorts of stuff. In the evenings, that same cat would come to me, want to cuddle up in the evening and would be near my face, so I tried the same thing and guess what? It's a damn solid story! I now can smell my cat, watch it's movements and get a good sense of it's activity for the day. Back to the dogs. Having returned to the pack, the dog could tell the story of animals it encountered, possible food sources, enemies and other things by the scents it carried home to share with the others. In my view, our biggest struggle understanding animals comes down to both how much they are like us, just in simpler form, and how we fail to see that due to our higher complexity taking us away from basics that make more sense than we know. And with some animals, they are just very different from us, whales, dolphins, octopus and the like. All that said, I agree with you! Humility and an open mind are key to understanding animals better. Frankly, the same tools help us understand one another better.

ryanblakeley 3y ago
Yes, there's something interesting going on there with smells and body language. It's a matter of how flexible you want to be with the word "story". In a strict sense, there needs to be who, what, when, where, why, and how. I think some of those elements are there for other animals, but maybe not all of them, and maybe not an ability to ask clarifying questions.
- ddingus 3y ago
  Yeah. Having discovered this dynamic through careful observation of my animals, story seems appropriate. A session with the cat yields: Who: Me What: Trip away from pack When: Today, more days maybe Where: Various places, work, car, outside places Why: Who knows what the cat thinks. She does differentiate a trip away from a food run How: in that moving thing And me with the cat: Who: Cat What: romp in flower beds or play with squirrels (they leave a different scent and the moss on the trees helps) Fight with that other cat. When: recently Where: grassy yard, trees, across the street Why: Cat bored playful finds squirrels. Enemy cat entered our territory, etc... How: On foot, maybe through fence. Given some time observing, smelling, listening, one can get a pretty great sense of the day! One other thing I should say is animals are like us, just simpler. Their every move communicates! They lack the layers of abstraction needed to make it otherwise. I can gather a lot from a few minutes spent close, feeling, watching, smelling, watching the cat move and vocalize. I find the whole thing remarkable! And it was the cat who educated me! If I pull up in the car and do not roll my window down, I get the look. If I do, then she is happy to jump in and exchange events of the day, essentially adding me to her story. The question sometimes happens. Usually, it is that paw on my chest when I get up to leave. Looks for all the world like, "hold on, I haven't got it all yet, or "this is new, WTF? Don't get me wrong. Not all animals are that high functioning. We have a couple and in my experience the more we try to interact and the less inhibited we are about all the ways, rubbing, smelling, etc... the more a higher functioning animal will respond with their own efforts. I only wish I had this insight earlier in life! My animal interactions are far more rich than they were before. Yes, let us flex these things a little and appreciate these beings here with us.