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> UK programme "NewsNight" had a discussion about it. There proposing the idea was some poor government flunky. There explaining the flaws in the idea was Whitf

> UK programme "NewsNight" had a discussion about it. There proposing the idea was some poor government flunky. There explaining the flaws in the idea was Whitfield Diffie Aah, the good old days when the BBC was un-biased. These days you would get a government flunky, and on the other side of the table a pro-government flunky from a lobbying outfit whose real accreditation has been carefully omitted by the BBC and they have been instead been given some generic independent sounding job title. I'm not joking! BBC Radio 4 famously recently did a "Brexit anniversary programme". Three people in the studio, the presenter and two guests. The two guests were .... Theresa Villiers and Daniel Hannan, two hardcore Brexteers who, of course, spent the entire interview session fighting completely unchallenged over who could give the most sycophantic sunlit-uplands view of Brexit.

ben_w 4y ago
The BBC certainly has a lot of problems with regard to actual independence, but I would like to *ahem* provide some balance by pointing to the satirical popular news quiz "Have I Got News For You" which spent the early part of the Blair years having to beep out certain references to Peter Mandelson — the Dominic Cummings of his era — that only ended with (from memory): ???: "Peter Mandelson is a hom… owner" Regular guest: "Why can't gay people own homes?" Host: "Well, new Director General, let's see if that goes out." At the time, and I'm pleasantly amazed how fast this has changed, being gay and in charge was still mildly scandalous in the eyes of tabloids, and that was about the same time the age of consent was equalised. However such (entirely valid) reasons for respecting privacy should be for all, but as far as I remember Mandelson was the only person who got to keep that particular secret. Conversely, right after the referendum someone said the BBC should play "God Save The Queen" at the end of the day's programming in concordance with the departure from the EU, and Newsnight responded with this, which is still up on their official channel: https://youtu.be/WwsQ_5Wm4oo https://youtu.be/WwsQ_5Wm4oo
- traceroute66 4y ago
  > Blair years having to beep out certain references to Peter Mandelson — the Dominic Cummings of his era I thought Alastair Campbell was Blair's Cummings ?
  - WediBlino 4y ago
    Cambell was Blair's Tucker.
  - giobox 4y ago
    Campbell is IMO the more appropriate comparison too - Mandelson was an elected MP and later a Lord during Blair/Brown years, he wasn't a SPAD for hire like Cummings or Campbell. That said, the three of them worked very closely together - Blair, Mandelson and Campbell.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I'm thinking mainly of the perception of each was that they were a dislikable Machiavellian power behind the throne: https://youtu.be/IWKBe7L50VA https://youtu.be/IWKBe7L50VA
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  That last example would mean more if The Sex Pistols hadn't long ago been thoroughly absorbed into and reapprpriated by the establishment. Imagine if they'd shared a contemporary work calling the monarchy a fascist regime. As it stands it was just a cute joke, and in a way only served to reinforce the soft power of parliament by entering into a playful discourse with it.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    Like how Status Quo made some rehashed pro-war "In the army now" army recruitment video ...
    - petre 4y ago
      I'd like to see them try rehashing In the Navy by the Village People into pro war propaganda.
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  The BBC don't seem to care about being impartial when it comes to the royalty. They publish loads of articles about the upcoming coronation and I have yet to see any republican points of view.
  - pydry 4y ago
    They don't care about impartiality in anything, really. Certainly not since Greg Dyke left. The management has increasingly been stuffed with people who are openly Tory. The recent attack on Gary Lineker for not being "impartial" (not being sufficiently uncritical of Government policy) was particularly galling.
  - hgomersall 4y ago
    There's no such thing as impartiality. Everything has an editorial line which colours what opinions are allowed.
    - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
      There's degrees of bias though. The BBC has a charter that is supposed to prioritise impartiality, and yet they show strong bias in many topics.
      - hgomersall 4y ago
        That's the point I'm making. It's like having their charter saying that pi is 3: reality is no less malleable.
        ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
        Well, pi is approximately 3 to a certain degree of precision. To make a bad analogy, the BBC is currently saying that pi is 4 and increasing.
zabzonk 4y ago
i worked for the BBC for several years back in the 80s, in computer services radio (basically designing and writing applications to support radio broadcasts) and it really has always been a crowd of right-wing arse lickers. the "talent" may appear to be slightly left-of-centre, but the management certainly is not.
Karellen 4y ago
> Aah, the good old days when the BBC was un-biased. I'm curious, around when do you think that changed? And was there a specific story they reported on (or didn't report on) that really solidified the change for you?
- traceroute66 4y ago
  > I'm curious, around when do you think that changed? The smell of change appeared more clearly in the run-up to Brexit. Certainly post-Brexit I would say it is very much evident. > And was there a specific story they reported on (or didn't report on) that really solidified the change for you? To be clear (as per my Radio 4 example cited above), it is not necessarily a case of "reported on / did not report on", it is frequently more a case of bias / lack of impartiality, again as nicely exemplified by my "two hardcore Brexiteers fight over Brexit" example[1]. However, I could also give you many examples of "reported on/did not report on". Perhaps one of the most well known is Lady Mone of House of Lords fame. She is/was subject to various investigations regarding supply of PPE during CoVID. For a long time, Lady Mone's investigations were widely reported in all mainstream media (tabloids, broadsheets, other mainstream TV/Radio news ... you name the place, it was reported there). But the BBC ? Nope. No mention on TV/Radio news, and for a long time a search for "Mone" on the BBC News website yielded exactly zero results. Even today although you can now find a small number of mentions on the BBC website, you'll have to go looking on other mainstream sources for the actual detail.[2] [1] https://www.thenational.scot/news/23289638.bbc-slated-insulting-radio-4-interview-brexit-anniversary/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/23289638.bbc-slated-insult... [2] https://www.thenational.scot/news/20107509.bbc-refuses-say-hasnt-covered-tory-peer-michelle-mones-london-house-raid/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/20107509.bbc-refuses-say-h... EDIT TO ADD (because I can't reply to the @Veen directly) > Leftists think it's an establishment mouthpiece run by the Tories. Well.... I see how they could feel that way when the recently appointed BBC Chairman is a chap who appears to have more than a few ties to Boris Johnson[3]. [3] https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/186148/bbc-chair-made-significant-errors-of-judgement-over-pm-loan-involvement-mps-say/ https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-cultu...
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
Veen 4y ago
It's worth pointing out that right-wingers say precisely the opposite and can produce plenty of evidence showing the BBC's left-wing bias.
- schmuelio 4y ago
  I think it would be more apt to call it plenty of "evidence"...
  - Veen 4y ago
    Yes, but it's an argument that just goes round and round forever. Conservatives think the BBC is run by a left-wing cabal. Leftists think it's an establishment mouthpiece run by the Tories. We've been having exactly the same argument since the 1960s.
    - bannedbybros 4y ago
      [dead]
    - pjc50 4y ago
      https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/186148/bbc-chair-made-significant-errors-of-judgement-over-pm-loan-involvement-mps-say/ https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-cultu... The chair is a Tory. We can then quibble over "run by", but you can't ignore the significant connections at high level.
      - Veen 4y ago
        The Chair, DG, and other higher-ups will almost always have either Labour or Tory connections, because those are the two main political parties. You'd be hard pushed to find a suitable candidate that wasn't connected at a high level. I suppose the tell is whether people who are up in arms about Tory Richard Sharp were similarly upset when Labour-supporting Michael Lyons or Gavyn Davies were chairman, or when Labour-supporting Mark Thompson, etc were DG.
bannedbybros 4y ago
[dead]
lwhi 4y ago
I'm sorry, but we'd be a hell of a lot worse off without the BBC. For all its flaws, it does a huge amount of good. All reporting will inevitably hold a bias simply because selection of story for time scheduled news will _always_ involve excluding other news items. The amount of criticism the BBC recieves is significant, and it's gone up a lot more recently. I think it's a reflection of the incumbent gov more than the state of the organisation. There are strong forces working against the BBCs more egalitarian aims.
- psychphysic 4y ago
  No one has a problem with the BBC existing. Just that it is de facto a state funded and government affiliated news agency. One of the funnier stories supporting this is that MI5 had to ask the BBC to stop sending everyone for vetting because it was unnecessary! > when MI5 suggested scaling back the number of jobs subject to vetting, the BBC argued against such a move. Something the BBC lied about repeatedly and only admitted years after other news agencies broke the story. Now it's run by the guy who was the PMs boss and who organised a loan for the last PM. And people claims it's totally independent? These sound like stories about RT. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43754737 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43754737

ben_w 4y ago

The BBC certainly has a lot of problems with regard to actual independence, but I would like to *ahem* provide some balance by pointing to the satirical popular news quiz "Have I Got News For You" which spent the early part of the Blair years having to beep out certain references to Peter Mandelson — the Dominic Cummings of his era — that only ended with (from memory): ???: "Peter Mandelson is a hom… owner" Regular guest: "Why can't gay people own homes?" Host: "Well, new Director General, let's see if that goes out." At the time, and I'm pleasantly amazed how fast this has changed, being gay and in charge was still mildly scandalous in the eyes of tabloids, and that was about the same time the age of consent was equalised. However such (entirely valid) reasons for respecting privacy should be for all, but as far as I remember Mandelson was the only person who got to keep that particular secret. Conversely, right after the referendum someone said the BBC should play "God Save The Queen" at the end of the day's programming in concordance with the departure from the EU, and Newsnight responded with this, which is still up on their official channel: https://youtu.be/WwsQ_5Wm4oo https://youtu.be/WwsQ_5Wm4oo

traceroute66 4y ago
> Blair years having to beep out certain references to Peter Mandelson — the Dominic Cummings of his era I thought Alastair Campbell was Blair's Cummings ?
- WediBlino 4y ago
  Cambell was Blair's Tucker.
- giobox 4y ago
  Campbell is IMO the more appropriate comparison too - Mandelson was an elected MP and later a Lord during Blair/Brown years, he wasn't a SPAD for hire like Cummings or Campbell. That said, the three of them worked very closely together - Blair, Mandelson and Campbell.
- ben_w 4y ago
  I'm thinking mainly of the perception of each was that they were a dislikable Machiavellian power behind the throne: https://youtu.be/IWKBe7L50VA https://youtu.be/IWKBe7L50VA
AlecSchueler 4y ago
That last example would mean more if The Sex Pistols hadn't long ago been thoroughly absorbed into and reapprpriated by the establishment. Imagine if they'd shared a contemporary work calling the monarchy a fascist regime. As it stands it was just a cute joke, and in a way only served to reinforce the soft power of parliament by entering into a playful discourse with it.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  Like how Status Quo made some rehashed pro-war "In the army now" army recruitment video ...
  - petre 4y ago
    I'd like to see them try rehashing In the Navy by the Village People into pro war propaganda.
ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
The BBC don't seem to care about being impartial when it comes to the royalty. They publish loads of articles about the upcoming coronation and I have yet to see any republican points of view.
- pydry 4y ago
  They don't care about impartiality in anything, really. Certainly not since Greg Dyke left. The management has increasingly been stuffed with people who are openly Tory. The recent attack on Gary Lineker for not being "impartial" (not being sufficiently uncritical of Government policy) was particularly galling.
- hgomersall 4y ago
  There's no such thing as impartiality. Everything has an editorial line which colours what opinions are allowed.
  - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
    There's degrees of bias though. The BBC has a charter that is supposed to prioritise impartiality, and yet they show strong bias in many topics.
    - hgomersall 4y ago
      That's the point I'm making. It's like having their charter saying that pi is 3: reality is no less malleable.
      - ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
        Well, pi is approximately 3 to a certain degree of precision. To make a bad analogy, the BBC is currently saying that pi is 4 and increasing.

zabzonk 4y ago

i worked for the BBC for several years back in the 80s, in computer services radio (basically designing and writing applications to support radio broadcasts) and it really has always been a crowd of right-wing arse lickers. the "talent" may appear to be slightly left-of-centre, but the management certainly is not.

Karellen 4y ago

> Aah, the good old days when the BBC was un-biased. I'm curious, around when do you think that changed? And was there a specific story they reported on (or didn't report on) that really solidified the change for you?

traceroute66 4y ago
> I'm curious, around when do you think that changed? The smell of change appeared more clearly in the run-up to Brexit. Certainly post-Brexit I would say it is very much evident. > And was there a specific story they reported on (or didn't report on) that really solidified the change for you? To be clear (as per my Radio 4 example cited above), it is not necessarily a case of "reported on / did not report on", it is frequently more a case of bias / lack of impartiality, again as nicely exemplified by my "two hardcore Brexiteers fight over Brexit" example[1]. However, I could also give you many examples of "reported on/did not report on". Perhaps one of the most well known is Lady Mone of House of Lords fame. She is/was subject to various investigations regarding supply of PPE during CoVID. For a long time, Lady Mone's investigations were widely reported in all mainstream media (tabloids, broadsheets, other mainstream TV/Radio news ... you name the place, it was reported there). But the BBC ? Nope. No mention on TV/Radio news, and for a long time a search for "Mone" on the BBC News website yielded exactly zero results. Even today although you can now find a small number of mentions on the BBC website, you'll have to go looking on other mainstream sources for the actual detail.[2] [1] https://www.thenational.scot/news/23289638.bbc-slated-insulting-radio-4-interview-brexit-anniversary/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/23289638.bbc-slated-insult... [2] https://www.thenational.scot/news/20107509.bbc-refuses-say-hasnt-covered-tory-peer-michelle-mones-london-house-raid/ https://www.thenational.scot/news/20107509.bbc-refuses-say-h... EDIT TO ADD (because I can't reply to the @Veen directly) > Leftists think it's an establishment mouthpiece run by the Tories. Well.... I see how they could feel that way when the recently appointed BBC Chairman is a chap who appears to have more than a few ties to Boris Johnson[3]. [3] https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/186148/bbc-chair-made-significant-errors-of-judgement-over-pm-loan-involvement-mps-say/ https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-cultu...
AlecSchueler 4y ago

Veen 4y ago

It's worth pointing out that right-wingers say precisely the opposite and can produce plenty of evidence showing the BBC's left-wing bias.

schmuelio 4y ago
I think it would be more apt to call it plenty of "evidence"...
- Veen 4y ago
  Yes, but it's an argument that just goes round and round forever. Conservatives think the BBC is run by a left-wing cabal. Leftists think it's an establishment mouthpiece run by the Tories. We've been having exactly the same argument since the 1960s.
  - bannedbybros 4y ago
    [dead]
  - pjc50 4y ago
    https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/186148/bbc-chair-made-significant-errors-of-judgement-over-pm-loan-involvement-mps-say/ https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/digital-cultu... The chair is a Tory. We can then quibble over "run by", but you can't ignore the significant connections at high level.
    - Veen 4y ago
      The Chair, DG, and other higher-ups will almost always have either Labour or Tory connections, because those are the two main political parties. You'd be hard pushed to find a suitable candidate that wasn't connected at a high level. I suppose the tell is whether people who are up in arms about Tory Richard Sharp were similarly upset when Labour-supporting Michael Lyons or Gavyn Davies were chairman, or when Labour-supporting Mark Thompson, etc were DG.

bannedbybros 4y ago

[dead]

lwhi 4y ago

I'm sorry, but we'd be a hell of a lot worse off without the BBC. For all its flaws, it does a huge amount of good. All reporting will inevitably hold a bias simply because selection of story for time scheduled news will _always_ involve excluding other news items. The amount of criticism the BBC recieves is significant, and it's gone up a lot more recently. I think it's a reflection of the incumbent gov more than the state of the organisation. There are strong forces working against the BBCs more egalitarian aims.

psychphysic 4y ago
No one has a problem with the BBC existing. Just that it is de facto a state funded and government affiliated news agency. One of the funnier stories supporting this is that MI5 had to ask the BBC to stop sending everyone for vetting because it was unnecessary! > when MI5 suggested scaling back the number of jobs subject to vetting, the BBC argued against such a move. Something the BBC lied about repeatedly and only admitted years after other news agencies broke the story. Now it's run by the guy who was the PMs boss and who organised a loan for the last PM. And people claims it's totally independent? These sound like stories about RT. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43754737 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43754737