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> Have you not heard of timed popups (such as those that trigger past a certain element) In the sites I interact with, that is probably the majority of these p

> Have you not heard of timed popups (such as those that trigger past a certain element) In the sites I interact with, that is probably the majority of these popups. You find them preferable? I find them just as annoying and counter-productive as OP is describing. For one thing, when your heuristics say I'm getting interested, that's when you decide to interrupt my attention? It's like they've intentionally decided to algorithmically make this as annoying as possible, when is the time we can interrupt the reader as annoyingly as we can? And as you say, even if I've read 35% of an article or something, it may still be the first time I'm interacting with a site, and why do I want to give them my email address?

auggierose 4y ago
You could make the argument that if you read the content for free, but cannot even be bothered to be asked for your email (you don't have to provide it!), then there is probably not much lost either for the site or for you if you never visit the site again.
- ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
  that hypothetic argument depends on the ridiculous assumption that if a user won't convert within a minute or so, in the middle of the first piece of your content they've ever read, they never will
  - auggierose 4y ago
    Well, I would put the pop-up more towards the end of the content. Also, you misrepresent the assumption. The assumption is that if the user is so annoyed even by just the attempt of conversion that they leave the site, that then you will have a hard time to ever convert them. That assumption doesn't sound ridiculous at all to me. Also, it doesn't need to be true 100% of the time. Even 50% is probably enough to justify it, because if you don't attempt to convert, you will not convert for sure.
    - Timwi 4y ago
      Your fixation on users as something that needs “converting”, and your insistence that anyone who doesn't “convert” doesn't matter and is not worthy of any consideration... well, let's just say, it explains why so many websites are unusable. I want to visit websites that are made for human beings, not commodities.
      - auggierose 4y ago
        Me too! But human beings must eat. So, get rid of capitalism, or convert. Keep in mind that conversion here means to provide the author of the content, hopefully a human being, with an email, so that they can inform you of interesting new content. I cannot see anything inhumane in this.
    - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
      it indeed sounds ridiculous to expect them to provide their personal information to you the first time they ever see any of your content, even if it's almost 1 whole piece of content 1 webpage view is rarely worth a piece of personal information as intimate as an email address, so you could either focus on demanding something less demanding, or making that 1 webpage view into multiple
      - auggierose 4y ago
        Or just make good content, and let people filter themselves out, if they are not interested. If my content is not worth your email, you don't have to give it. If you furthermore don't deem my content worth the small annoyance of being asked for your email, fine! Bye bye. The alternative is that I have to track you somehow, and determine how often you visited my content. I wouldn't like that. It is more complicated, it is creepier, and I very much doubt that it would convert better.
        ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
        or just focus on demanding something less demanding, or making that 1 webpage view into multiple by making good content either way, you're in the minority in feeling that someone viewing <1 piece of your internet content entitles you to personal information about them as intimate as an email address, because it is a ridiculous expectation
skilled 4y ago
Your argument is valid in the context of people who just don't have any idea about User Experience. A popup can be made very user-friendly and non-obstructive if you plan it that way. A small slide-out from bottom-right corner with soft colors (in my opinion) is a great way to let people know you have a newsletter.
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  Sure, that's fine. I don't see those, I see popups that cover up the article I was trying to read, and I'm pretty sure this is quite intentional, someone designing it believes that will maximize "conversions". (I have no idea if they are correct about that or not, they may well be).
- Timwi 4y ago
  Absolutely not. A pop-up is, by definition, something that “pops up”, which it does specifically to hijack attention, i.e., to be distracting and obnoxious. The best way to let me know that you have a newsletter is NO POP-UP. A pop-up immediately screams “this website is trying to hijack your attention, get out as fast as possible.” The idea that I should want to stay on such a dystopian website, much less reward it with a newsletter subscription, is just so ludicrous it boggles the mind.
- olyjohn 4y ago
  Or you could just put it somewhere static on your page that doesn't pop up. Maybe quit hiding every single thing under a hamburger menu and some magical swipe, and people might be able to find it.

auggierose 4y ago

You could make the argument that if you read the content for free, but cannot even be bothered to be asked for your email (you don't have to provide it!), then there is probably not much lost either for the site or for you if you never visit the site again.

ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
that hypothetic argument depends on the ridiculous assumption that if a user won't convert within a minute or so, in the middle of the first piece of your content they've ever read, they never will
- auggierose 4y ago
  Well, I would put the pop-up more towards the end of the content. Also, you misrepresent the assumption. The assumption is that if the user is so annoyed even by just the attempt of conversion that they leave the site, that then you will have a hard time to ever convert them. That assumption doesn't sound ridiculous at all to me. Also, it doesn't need to be true 100% of the time. Even 50% is probably enough to justify it, because if you don't attempt to convert, you will not convert for sure.
  - Timwi 4y ago
    Your fixation on users as something that needs “converting”, and your insistence that anyone who doesn't “convert” doesn't matter and is not worthy of any consideration... well, let's just say, it explains why so many websites are unusable. I want to visit websites that are made for human beings, not commodities.
    - auggierose 4y ago
      Me too! But human beings must eat. So, get rid of capitalism, or convert. Keep in mind that conversion here means to provide the author of the content, hopefully a human being, with an email, so that they can inform you of interesting new content. I cannot see anything inhumane in this.
  - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
    it indeed sounds ridiculous to expect them to provide their personal information to you the first time they ever see any of your content, even if it's almost 1 whole piece of content 1 webpage view is rarely worth a piece of personal information as intimate as an email address, so you could either focus on demanding something less demanding, or making that 1 webpage view into multiple
    - auggierose 4y ago
      Or just make good content, and let people filter themselves out, if they are not interested. If my content is not worth your email, you don't have to give it. If you furthermore don't deem my content worth the small annoyance of being asked for your email, fine! Bye bye. The alternative is that I have to track you somehow, and determine how often you visited my content. I wouldn't like that. It is more complicated, it is creepier, and I very much doubt that it would convert better.
      - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
        or just focus on demanding something less demanding, or making that 1 webpage view into multiple by making good content either way, you're in the minority in feeling that someone viewing <1 piece of your internet content entitles you to personal information about them as intimate as an email address, because it is a ridiculous expectation

skilled 4y ago

Your argument is valid in the context of people who just don't have any idea about User Experience. A popup can be made very user-friendly and non-obstructive if you plan it that way. A small slide-out from bottom-right corner with soft colors (in my opinion) is a great way to let people know you have a newsletter.

jrochkind1 4y ago
Sure, that's fine. I don't see those, I see popups that cover up the article I was trying to read, and I'm pretty sure this is quite intentional, someone designing it believes that will maximize "conversions". (I have no idea if they are correct about that or not, they may well be).
Timwi 4y ago
Absolutely not. A pop-up is, by definition, something that “pops up”, which it does specifically to hijack attention, i.e., to be distracting and obnoxious. The best way to let me know that you have a newsletter is NO POP-UP. A pop-up immediately screams “this website is trying to hijack your attention, get out as fast as possible.” The idea that I should want to stay on such a dystopian website, much less reward it with a newsletter subscription, is just so ludicrous it boggles the mind.
olyjohn 4y ago
Or you could just put it somewhere static on your page that doesn't pop up. Maybe quit hiding every single thing under a hamburger menu and some magical swipe, and people might be able to find it.