4 ms·

At this point, I'm betting this was a paid for study and article by a group interested in keeping corporate real estate values up. I'll suspect most articles be

At this point, I'm betting this was a paid for study and article by a group interested in keeping corporate real estate values up. I'll suspect most articles before this point were too.

izacus 4y ago
Or maybe you just refuse to accept that certain ways of working have downsides because you have a personal vested interest to ignore the facts?
- Clubber 4y ago
  Not for me they don't. Most of our team is remote and it's great for retention. Nothing makes people want to jump ship more than a shitty office culture you have to experience in person every day. Guess what, most office cultures are shitty, no matter how many ping pong tables you put in there. What's my personal vested interest do you suppose?
  - gumballindie 4y ago
    Agreed, same here. It appears that media workers are pushing hard against tech people - be it remote work perks or getting replaced by ai and so on.
  - izacus 4y ago
    The fact that you think "most office cultures are shitty" and have thus decided to dismiss everything that might mention any kind of downsides of WFH as a conspiracy. That's like... the definition of ignoring facts over personal bias.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      Do you think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a group of wealthy commercial real estate owners would get articles published and studies paid for, particularly when they face significant financial harm due to people wanting to work from home? Who do you think paid for that study? It's paywalls so I don't know. I doubt it was a union. Do you think it's strange that we've had a deluge of negative articles about working from home and almost no positive ones? Does this seem statistically normal to you? Serious questions to think about.
      - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        It doesn't have to be either/or. Commercial real estate could have a vested interest, and there could be real downsides with many companies' implementation of work from home. At that point, if the problems are real, dismissing the article, not because of who wrote it, but because of who you suspect wrote it, seems rather narrow-minded.
        Clubber 4y ago
        I can't read it because it's paywalled, but can you tell me the difference between this article and all the other articles we've been spammed with about how WFH is somehow bad? >Commercial real estate could have a vested interest, and there could be real downsides with many companies' implementation of work from home. You're also moving the goalposts I think. I just bet that both the article and the study were funded by said interests. Studies don't fund themselves and people who do funded studies have incentive to find the results that they are paid to find, or at the very least, omit any evidence to the contrary.
        amrocha 4y ago
        Seems weird to admit you haven't read the article and are just commenting on the headline and speculating, while at the same time asking another user to summarize it for you and compare it to other articles that you also likely haven't read. The burden of being dismissively argumentative is so low, and engaging constructively takes so much time, that discussions become dominated by comments like yours and eventually everyone who wants to engage constructively leaves.
        Clubber 4y ago
        >Seems weird to admit you haven't read the article and are just commenting on the headline and speculating Why does it seem weird? I'm not trying to deceive anyone. I didn't ask for discussion, I was just stating an opinion. I openly admitted it was completely speculative by the wording I used, but I haven't changed my mind. >At this point, I'm betting this was a paid for study and article by a group interested in keeping corporate real estate values up. I'll suspect most articles before this point were too. I would also guess that some of the people who were arguing with me probably didn't read the article either, at least at the time they retorted. Perhaps if they did, they could tell he how this article was different from all the others recently. I suspect it's just more of the same. FWIW, I have read other articles, and they all seem contrived as if they were planted to sway opinion. "Office cooler talk is invaluable," is one of the talking points. "Communication is invaluable in an open office," also seems pretty suspect. I haven't experienced either of these. The most productive environment I've ever worked in was when I had an office, or shared an office wither another person. I'm certainly not the only person with this experience. "WFH makes you more likely to be outsourced," is another threatening talking point. The newest one is "WFH makes you more likely to be replaced from AI." I guess this one is, "for God's sake, think of the junior developers!" I've been around the block and working professionally for a while. I've read thousands of articles in my adult lifetime over 20+ years. Just based on life experience, all these arguments seem contrived to me. You might differ in your opinion. Here's an article about how Google pays for research to shield against regulation. Know who has a lot of commercial real estate? Google. Just an example. https://www.wsj.com/articles/paying-professors-inside-googles-academic-influence-campaign-1499785286 https://www.wsj.com/articles/paying-professors-inside-google...
- MSFT_Edging 4y ago
  I find this to be an ironic response to "real estate has vested interest in maintaining real estate value at the expense of worker quality of life"
  - dnissley 4y ago
    Sure they do, but unless you have some evidence this is the case it is just conspiratorial thinking. There's a reason we joke around about saying something is being pushed by "big x" where x = some shadowy group with a vested interest in y -- because it's silly to imagine and almost certainly not the case in most situations.
- tkiolp4 4y ago
  But one cannot just consider the benefits of office work in isolation. If working remotely makes me see my family and friends more hours per week (e.g., having breakfast and lunch with my partner/kids) then to the hell that x% of productivity I could theoretically gain by working from the office.
dboreham 4y ago
Likely. Everything you read is in support of someone's business model.

At this point, I'm betting this was a paid for study and article by a group interested in keeping corporate real estate values up. I'll suspect most articles before this point were too.

izacus 4y ago

Or maybe you just refuse to accept that certain ways of working have downsides because you have a personal vested interest to ignore the facts?

Clubber 4y ago
Not for me they don't. Most of our team is remote and it's great for retention. Nothing makes people want to jump ship more than a shitty office culture you have to experience in person every day. Guess what, most office cultures are shitty, no matter how many ping pong tables you put in there. What's my personal vested interest do you suppose?
- gumballindie 4y ago
  Agreed, same here. It appears that media workers are pushing hard against tech people - be it remote work perks or getting replaced by ai and so on.
- izacus 4y ago
  The fact that you think "most office cultures are shitty" and have thus decided to dismiss everything that might mention any kind of downsides of WFH as a conspiracy. That's like... the definition of ignoring facts over personal bias.
  - Clubber 4y ago
    Do you think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a group of wealthy commercial real estate owners would get articles published and studies paid for, particularly when they face significant financial harm due to people wanting to work from home? Who do you think paid for that study? It's paywalls so I don't know. I doubt it was a union. Do you think it's strange that we've had a deluge of negative articles about working from home and almost no positive ones? Does this seem statistically normal to you? Serious questions to think about.
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      It doesn't have to be either/or. Commercial real estate could have a vested interest, and there could be real downsides with many companies' implementation of work from home. At that point, if the problems are real, dismissing the article, not because of who wrote it, but because of who you suspect wrote it, seems rather narrow-minded.
      - Clubber 4y ago
        I can't read it because it's paywalled, but can you tell me the difference between this article and all the other articles we've been spammed with about how WFH is somehow bad? >Commercial real estate could have a vested interest, and there could be real downsides with many companies' implementation of work from home. You're also moving the goalposts I think. I just bet that both the article and the study were funded by said interests. Studies don't fund themselves and people who do funded studies have incentive to find the results that they are paid to find, or at the very least, omit any evidence to the contrary.
        amrocha 4y ago
        Seems weird to admit you haven't read the article and are just commenting on the headline and speculating, while at the same time asking another user to summarize it for you and compare it to other articles that you also likely haven't read. The burden of being dismissively argumentative is so low, and engaging constructively takes so much time, that discussions become dominated by comments like yours and eventually everyone who wants to engage constructively leaves.
        Clubber 4y ago
        >Seems weird to admit you haven't read the article and are just commenting on the headline and speculating Why does it seem weird? I'm not trying to deceive anyone. I didn't ask for discussion, I was just stating an opinion. I openly admitted it was completely speculative by the wording I used, but I haven't changed my mind. >At this point, I'm betting this was a paid for study and article by a group interested in keeping corporate real estate values up. I'll suspect most articles before this point were too. I would also guess that some of the people who were arguing with me probably didn't read the article either, at least at the time they retorted. Perhaps if they did, they could tell he how this article was different from all the others recently. I suspect it's just more of the same. FWIW, I have read other articles, and they all seem contrived as if they were planted to sway opinion. "Office cooler talk is invaluable," is one of the talking points. "Communication is invaluable in an open office," also seems pretty suspect. I haven't experienced either of these. The most productive environment I've ever worked in was when I had an office, or shared an office wither another person. I'm certainly not the only person with this experience. "WFH makes you more likely to be outsourced," is another threatening talking point. The newest one is "WFH makes you more likely to be replaced from AI." I guess this one is, "for God's sake, think of the junior developers!" I've been around the block and working professionally for a while. I've read thousands of articles in my adult lifetime over 20+ years. Just based on life experience, all these arguments seem contrived to me. You might differ in your opinion. Here's an article about how Google pays for research to shield against regulation. Know who has a lot of commercial real estate? Google. Just an example. https://www.wsj.com/articles/paying-professors-inside-googles-academic-influence-campaign-1499785286 https://www.wsj.com/articles/paying-professors-inside-google...
MSFT_Edging 4y ago
I find this to be an ironic response to "real estate has vested interest in maintaining real estate value at the expense of worker quality of life"
- dnissley 4y ago
  Sure they do, but unless you have some evidence this is the case it is just conspiratorial thinking. There's a reason we joke around about saying something is being pushed by "big x" where x = some shadowy group with a vested interest in y -- because it's silly to imagine and almost certainly not the case in most situations.
tkiolp4 4y ago
But one cannot just consider the benefits of office work in isolation. If working remotely makes me see my family and friends more hours per week (e.g., having breakfast and lunch with my partner/kids) then to the hell that x% of productivity I could theoretically gain by working from the office.

dboreham 4y ago

Likely. Everything you read is in support of someone's business model.