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iPhone 15 Ultra camera upgrades could give photographers a serious dilemma

14 points by mikece 4y ago

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Have camera sensors advanced so you can control exposure time, white-balance? I seem to remember Intel dragging their feet on professional parameters for sensors, arguing that they're only used for selfies and not e.g. sports photography.
- bdamm 4y ago
  "Camera sensors" have been able to do this since the dawn of digital photography, seeing as these parameters are so fundamental even for selfies. A sensor that can't adjust exposure time is one that cannot function in almost any light.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Phone cameras are a special category. Sure there are digital cameras that can do it. But low-profile low-power miniaturized camera sensors?
    - runnerup 4y ago
      Yeah iPhone cameras can do all that stuff. Notice that iPhones have long exposure modes for astrophotography, but still also take high frame rate “slomo” videos. MEMS autofocus has been available on iPhones for almost a decade and voice coil motor autofocus before that. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&sxsrf=APwXEdfx7ajzhkKVcXqb4p-TXUPeOEyheA:1682367652392&q=mems+autofocus+smartphone&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiairXyq8P-AhXLlmoFHemcDMUQ0pQJegQIDhAB&biw=428&bih=746&dpr=3#imgrc=Xk8cVHEAfhFMCM&lnspr=W10= https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&sxsrf=A...
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Here's the comment I was remembering: Rich Altmaier 3:23 PM (5 minutes ago) to me The sensors Intel was producing, now about 7 year ago, did not support capturing the full set of frame pixels at one time. Rather pixels could be copied into backing store from just one pixel row at one moment, then read out, then copy the next row and read out. So the single row of pixels was from the same moment in time, and subsequent rows had to spread over about 1/120 second of time. So all images were time delayed from top to bottom of the frame. This method, common to smart phones, is the reason fast moving objects appear bent. e.g. helicopter blades are bent in mobile video. Secondly I wanted an enhancement, not available at that time in any modern DSLR camera, to adjust the capture image brightness based on ambient illumination changes. This would prevent the typical gym lighting, fluorescent oscillating at 1/120s, from a beat frequency with the video shutter, showing slow moving bands of light/dark across the screen. Rich
    - SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
      My Galaxy Note 9 can do it. I use the OpenCamera app, which gives manual exposure control, manual shutter speed control, manual focus, and can shoot in raw. Of course auto modes still work. That's a nearly 5 year old phone, though it was rather high-end for the time.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  Higher end phone cameras have both of these for many years. Also, any of Apple's stuff (and many Android phones, as well) support shooting in RAW, so you can use the usual DSLR flow of processing RAW photos to get the white balance you desire in post. Usually these settings are hidden or abstracted. iPhones just call it 'exposure' and it's similar to DSLR EV +/-2.0 adjustment. I believe fancier camera apps that work on iPhones can support explicit exposure time, as well, though.
- vel0city 4y ago
  I've been able to adjust exposure and white balance on my phone cameras for well over a decade and across a few different models of phones. I could do it on Symbian phones, Windows Phone phones, and my Android phones. I cannot think of a single smartphone which didn't let me change exposure and white balance.
yieldcrv 4y ago
If you thought this article was about photographers gatekeeping, think again Its just clickbait between buying this iphone or the next iphone > But these upgrades for the Ultra could give photographers like me a difficult decision. If the rumors are true, the Ultra will be opening up a sizable photographic gap to the rest of the iPhone 15 series – so it could be a decision between splashing out on that flagship, or waiting until next year for an iPhone 16 Pro with a periscope zoom.
zgk7iqea 4y ago
Wow. This website is completely unbearable without an adblocker. Clickbait and Autoplay videos everywhere.
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
I love the iPhone camera but photos still seem super processed compared to an actual camera body. Plus big camera lens have a lot of character in the bokeh and focus that a tiny phone lens/sensor can't capture. It's nice that people will have increasingly good cameras in their pockets, but Sony (who capitalized on great blogging cameras) and Fujifilm (who capitalized on fun bodies with good film simulation that everybody was already applying in post-processing paired with the expertise of a company who built satellite optics) will be fine. Canon seems to gotten to the mirrorless era a little later than the others and not doing as hot as they used to, but it's not clear that's entirely the fault of iPhone cameras getting better.
- acchow 4y ago
  Try the ProRAW mode on the iPhone 14 Pro. It has much less processing.
  - mustacheemperor 4y ago
    I mostly shoot ProRAW with Halide on my 14 Pro and the processing is reduced, but it's still there, and it's still obvious. I seldom get a photo I would actually consider printable at reasonable sizes because zooming in closely reveals obvious processing artifacts. The darker and higher contrast the scene, the worse it gets - the cool shots I've taken of SF's skyline at night are good test cases. They look good on the device display, but zooming in the processing is beyond obvious. I was really excited for the 48MP sensor in my new iPhone. Initially I shot a lot more photos and tried to use it more like a 'real camera,' but I wound up picking up 35mm photography this year. I'll likely get a digital body eventually too, but I'm enjoying learning about film stocks and getting a really deep understanding of the exposure triangle. My fancy new iPhone camera ultimately just pushed me to realize I want to be shooting stuff that can enlarge and print better and it's still not there. Not to mention the optical effects of a "real lens" (bokeh, true and configurable physical depth of field).
  - goalieca 4y ago
    It’s embarrassing there’s no toggle for minimal processing for everyday pictures of my kids. I just want some simple denoising filters to deal with the ccd Jank and mostly I want to see in the picture what my phone shows on the screen.
cultofmetatron 4y ago
its nice to know I'll have the option of having a good enough camera in my pocket for when I leave the mirrorless at home but there's no comparison. even an apsc sensor is bigger than this and sensor and thats going to give it a huge advantage from a PHYSICS perspective. digital bokeh are getting better every year but there's still nothing like a natural bokeh.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
noncoml 4y ago
no denying that smart phone completely killed the point and shot industry. But unless they come up with a few new laws of physics, they cannot compete in the FF/APS-C market
- chemmail 4y ago
  Not only that, Apple processing looks worst and worst every year. It's AI to the point you might as well tall the AI what you see and let it process the image than taking the actual picture.
mtelgon 4y ago
One of the main reasons I shoot with an actual camera body is exactly because it has a camera body. The ergonomics of shooting with a phone are terrible. Obviously phones will never fit in your hand like that, so both will continue to exist because they serve different purposes. I am glad that phone sensors are getting bigger since when you don't have your camera on you they do a fine job (when you avoid the in-cam processing by shooting raw)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- CharlieDigital 4y ago
  You can get a grip accessory that makes it feel more ergonomic.
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  On the other hand, the best camera is the one that you have with you, so having a better photo camera is always a great thing.
- fassssst 4y ago
  For video I much prefer iPhone with a gimbal though. And the gimbal, with its built in stick and tracking, makes me much more creative for stills than I am with my traditional cameras. Both pale in comparison to the creativity I feel with a 360 camera though. Image quality ain’t everything.
- acomjean 4y ago
  For what its worth, the volume up button is the shutter button too which helps sometimes. It used to work with wired headphones too.
- CaptainZapp 4y ago
  > One of the main reasons I shoot with an actual camera body is exactly because it has a camera body. The ergonomics of shooting with a phone are terrible. For me it's that and the conscious decision to get a camera ready and take it along for the ride. I'm not sure if it makes senses, but to me that's an attitude shift in how I take photos.
that_guy_iain 4y ago
I suspect most will stick with their main camera with all the lenses, settings, filters, etc it wouldn’t even really be that much of a conversation. Funny story, I was in Venice last week to do photography. So I had my camera. I was taking pics of the sunset but I wanted to take a pic to send to my friend. So I used my iPhone. The confused looks I got from people who could see a camera dangling from my wrist while I used an iPhone to take a picture was quite funny. I suspect it’ll be like that going forward. Want to take a quick snap to send to people use your phone. Want to take a photo to put on your wall, use your camera.

14 points by mikece 4y ago

Have camera sensors advanced so you can control exposure time, white-balance? I seem to remember Intel dragging their feet on professional parameters for sensors, arguing that they're only used for selfies and not e.g. sports photography.

bdamm 4y ago
"Camera sensors" have been able to do this since the dawn of digital photography, seeing as these parameters are so fundamental even for selfies. A sensor that can't adjust exposure time is one that cannot function in almost any light.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Phone cameras are a special category. Sure there are digital cameras that can do it. But low-profile low-power miniaturized camera sensors?
  - runnerup 4y ago
    Yeah iPhone cameras can do all that stuff. Notice that iPhones have long exposure modes for astrophotography, but still also take high frame rate “slomo” videos. MEMS autofocus has been available on iPhones for almost a decade and voice coil motor autofocus before that. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&sxsrf=APwXEdfx7ajzhkKVcXqb4p-TXUPeOEyheA:1682367652392&q=mems+autofocus+smartphone&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiairXyq8P-AhXLlmoFHemcDMUQ0pQJegQIDhAB&biw=428&bih=746&dpr=3#imgrc=Xk8cVHEAfhFMCM&lnspr=W10= https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&sxsrf=A...
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      Here's the comment I was remembering: Rich Altmaier 3:23 PM (5 minutes ago) to me The sensors Intel was producing, now about 7 year ago, did not support capturing the full set of frame pixels at one time. Rather pixels could be copied into backing store from just one pixel row at one moment, then read out, then copy the next row and read out. So the single row of pixels was from the same moment in time, and subsequent rows had to spread over about 1/120 second of time. So all images were time delayed from top to bottom of the frame. This method, common to smart phones, is the reason fast moving objects appear bent. e.g. helicopter blades are bent in mobile video. Secondly I wanted an enhancement, not available at that time in any modern DSLR camera, to adjust the capture image brightness based on ambient illumination changes. This would prevent the typical gym lighting, fluorescent oscillating at 1/120s, from a beat frequency with the video shutter, showing slow moving bands of light/dark across the screen. Rich
  - SAI_Peregrinus 4y ago
    My Galaxy Note 9 can do it. I use the OpenCamera app, which gives manual exposure control, manual shutter speed control, manual focus, and can shoot in raw. Of course auto modes still work. That's a nearly 5 year old phone, though it was rather high-end for the time.
Kirby64 4y ago
Higher end phone cameras have both of these for many years. Also, any of Apple's stuff (and many Android phones, as well) support shooting in RAW, so you can use the usual DSLR flow of processing RAW photos to get the white balance you desire in post. Usually these settings are hidden or abstracted. iPhones just call it 'exposure' and it's similar to DSLR EV +/-2.0 adjustment. I believe fancier camera apps that work on iPhones can support explicit exposure time, as well, though.
vel0city 4y ago
I've been able to adjust exposure and white balance on my phone cameras for well over a decade and across a few different models of phones. I could do it on Symbian phones, Windows Phone phones, and my Android phones. I cannot think of a single smartphone which didn't let me change exposure and white balance.

yieldcrv 4y ago

If you thought this article was about photographers gatekeeping, think again Its just clickbait between buying this iphone or the next iphone > But these upgrades for the Ultra could give photographers like me a difficult decision. If the rumors are true, the Ultra will be opening up a sizable photographic gap to the rest of the iPhone 15 series – so it could be a decision between splashing out on that flagship, or waiting until next year for an iPhone 16 Pro with a periscope zoom.

zgk7iqea 4y ago

Wow. This website is completely unbearable without an adblocker. Clickbait and Autoplay videos everywhere.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

I love the iPhone camera but photos still seem super processed compared to an actual camera body. Plus big camera lens have a lot of character in the bokeh and focus that a tiny phone lens/sensor can't capture. It's nice that people will have increasingly good cameras in their pockets, but Sony (who capitalized on great blogging cameras) and Fujifilm (who capitalized on fun bodies with good film simulation that everybody was already applying in post-processing paired with the expertise of a company who built satellite optics) will be fine. Canon seems to gotten to the mirrorless era a little later than the others and not doing as hot as they used to, but it's not clear that's entirely the fault of iPhone cameras getting better.

acchow 4y ago
Try the ProRAW mode on the iPhone 14 Pro. It has much less processing.
- mustacheemperor 4y ago
  I mostly shoot ProRAW with Halide on my 14 Pro and the processing is reduced, but it's still there, and it's still obvious. I seldom get a photo I would actually consider printable at reasonable sizes because zooming in closely reveals obvious processing artifacts. The darker and higher contrast the scene, the worse it gets - the cool shots I've taken of SF's skyline at night are good test cases. They look good on the device display, but zooming in the processing is beyond obvious. I was really excited for the 48MP sensor in my new iPhone. Initially I shot a lot more photos and tried to use it more like a 'real camera,' but I wound up picking up 35mm photography this year. I'll likely get a digital body eventually too, but I'm enjoying learning about film stocks and getting a really deep understanding of the exposure triangle. My fancy new iPhone camera ultimately just pushed me to realize I want to be shooting stuff that can enlarge and print better and it's still not there. Not to mention the optical effects of a "real lens" (bokeh, true and configurable physical depth of field).
- goalieca 4y ago
  It’s embarrassing there’s no toggle for minimal processing for everyday pictures of my kids. I just want some simple denoising filters to deal with the ccd Jank and mostly I want to see in the picture what my phone shows on the screen.

cultofmetatron 4y ago

its nice to know I'll have the option of having a good enough camera in my pocket for when I leave the mirrorless at home but there's no comparison. even an apsc sensor is bigger than this and sensor and thats going to give it a huge advantage from a PHYSICS perspective. digital bokeh are getting better every year but there's still nothing like a natural bokeh.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

noncoml 4y ago

no denying that smart phone completely killed the point and shot industry. But unless they come up with a few new laws of physics, they cannot compete in the FF/APS-C market

chemmail 4y ago
Not only that, Apple processing looks worst and worst every year. It's AI to the point you might as well tall the AI what you see and let it process the image than taking the actual picture.

mtelgon 4y ago

One of the main reasons I shoot with an actual camera body is exactly because it has a camera body. The ergonomics of shooting with a phone are terrible. Obviously phones will never fit in your hand like that, so both will continue to exist because they serve different purposes. I am glad that phone sensors are getting bigger since when you don't have your camera on you they do a fine job (when you avoid the in-cam processing by shooting raw)

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CharlieDigital 4y ago
You can get a grip accessory that makes it feel more ergonomic.
pantalaimon 4y ago
On the other hand, the best camera is the one that you have with you, so having a better photo camera is always a great thing.
fassssst 4y ago
For video I much prefer iPhone with a gimbal though. And the gimbal, with its built in stick and tracking, makes me much more creative for stills than I am with my traditional cameras. Both pale in comparison to the creativity I feel with a 360 camera though. Image quality ain’t everything.
acomjean 4y ago
For what its worth, the volume up button is the shutter button too which helps sometimes. It used to work with wired headphones too.
CaptainZapp 4y ago
> One of the main reasons I shoot with an actual camera body is exactly because it has a camera body. The ergonomics of shooting with a phone are terrible. For me it's that and the conscious decision to get a camera ready and take it along for the ride. I'm not sure if it makes senses, but to me that's an attitude shift in how I take photos.

that_guy_iain 4y ago

I suspect most will stick with their main camera with all the lenses, settings, filters, etc it wouldn’t even really be that much of a conversation. Funny story, I was in Venice last week to do photography. So I had my camera. I was taking pics of the sunset but I wanted to take a pic to send to my friend. So I used my iPhone. The confused looks I got from people who could see a camera dangling from my wrist while I used an iPhone to take a picture was quite funny. I suspect it’ll be like that going forward. Want to take a quick snap to send to people use your phone. Want to take a photo to put on your wall, use your camera.