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That would be a terrible move though, especially now with the brand in crisis because of Musk's recent behaviour.
by dallyo 3y ago
That would be a terrible move though, especially now with the brand in crisis because of Musk's recent behaviour.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- yaseer 3y agoWhat makes you say the brand is in crisis? Asking because I am curious to see this take, not to dispute it.
- mcv 3y agoI don't think Tesla is necessarily in crisis, but Musk's behaviour definitely has some impact on the trust people have in his company. It's still a big car brand obviously, but to a lot of people, Tesla isn't as cool anymore. Backpedaling on promises isn't going to help.
- akmarinov 3y agoWell it’s that + they’ve never had a big exterior design overhaul for their vehicles. So they’ve been pretty much selling the same cars for 10 years now. Eventually it gets old when everyone has the same looking car.
- mcv 3y agoTo be perfectly honest, I think most cars these days look the same. It seems like there's only a handful of designs that most car makers tend to stick to, with only minor variations.
- dallyo 3y agoWas going to say this too. Compared to 40 years ago, car designs are not very diverse. I suppose because there is an optimal aerodynamic shape for each class of car, and we are converging on that.
- dallyo 3y agoI agree in general, but what about the cybertruck? Probably the most radical design of a production car in a long time.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoWhich is good environmentally - cheaper to produce, less bugs, cheaper maintenance.
- threeseed 3y agoBecause Tesla is a brand that relied entirely on the CEO for PR/Marketing. And it's indisputable that Twitter is in serious trouble. By Musk's own admission the company is worth less than half what he paid for it. Revenue has plummeted, toxicity is rampant, lawsuits are increasing and Twitter Blue has been a disaster that will likely be researched for years. And so all of this chaos has dragged Musk's reputation down which in turn is affecting Tesla.
- throwntoday 3y ago[dead]
- kramerger 3y agoTesla has two problems right now: fewer cars sold despite price cuts and quality issues are finally reaching courts which may also affect their brand image. Is this a crisis? Too early to say, but nevertheless this all happend while competitors are catching up and latest offerings from German manufacturers looks very promising. There is a very real chance Tesla can loose the luxury EV segment.
- throwaway-blaze 3y agoI don't know. I have a 2014 Model S that I'd like to replace. The list of EVs that are actually _available now_ at list price as opposed to an order/wait list or an upcharge over list from dealer is pretty small (another Tesla, Chevy Bolt, Porsche Tacan/Audi eTron GT). I agree there will soon be more choices, but that's going to be a problem in 2 years, especially in the luxury segment.
- dallyo 3y agoTo add to the comments already made - IMO it's because the customer base is generally left leaning environmentally aware types, and Musk's public behaviour recently is not well aligned with that. Electric cars are still not fully mainstream, but there are many more options from other manufacturers now. He's basically alienated a lot of the consumers that were "brand champions".
- pfannkuchen 3y agoSo what I have seen him say and do seems genuine and I don’t really think this is happening, but what if the environmentally aware types market is saturated and he is trying to push the brand into a new demographic— pickup truck buyers, I suppose, and interestingly they have a pickup truck planned as well…
- dallyo 3y agoThat's an interesting take on the situation. I find it hard to believe though - for one thing it would be a huge risk to reorientate your brand like that, and also the designs for their pickups are not exactly conservative. (Incidentally I have a pre-order for the cybertruck - it was only 100EUR, and refundable, so kind of a casual decision. No news on when they will be available still though!).
- pfannkuchen 3y agoIt depends on whether it impacts “repeat purchases” or “first time test drives”. I could see the political stuff impacting the latter significantly more than the former, assuming the product is good. But again I don’t think it’s actually happening, it would be too Machiavellian for reality.
- dallyo 3y agoI think it will impact both - surely a lot of the potential repeat purchases are from people that had ethical motivations to buy an electric car - they probably wont give up on electric, but there are a number of good alternative options now on the market.
- augment003 3y agoI was talking to a friend this weekend who just bought a Tesla. He really didn’t want to if he could find an alternative, purely because of Musk and Twitter. Seems like a brand in crisis to me.
- detrites 3y agoI don't agree with many things he's said, however, having his his own opinions or expressing them, or running his companies how he believes will make them a success doesn't strike me as bad behaviour. Certainly, he's excelled going his way so far.
- dallyo 3y agoIt's undeniable that he's achieved amazing things with telsa and spaceX, but he's constantly undermining himself with his public statements.
- mcv 3y agoEverybody believed he was a genius, a real-life Tony Stark, and then he started to believe that too, and thought he couldn't fail. And that's when the crazy ideas came. If he'd stuck to running Tesla and SpaceX to the best of his ability, without picking stupid internet fights, and keeping his Twitter addiction in check, he'd still have all that respect, and not just wasted $44B.
- dallyo 3y agoIt seems to me that he's quite mindful of the possibility of failure - he's often quoted as saying that gambled everything on telsa, but only estimated a 10% chance of success (who knows if he really believed that at the time). And I think he's the closest thing we have to a real life tony stark - he's certainly a visionary. I get the impression that his odd tweets, and decisions like buying Twitter, happened after too much "red wine, ambien and vintage records".
- mcv 3y agoBut he's quite clearly not a "real life Tony Stark". He didn't invent any of the stuff he sells. He didn't found Tesla, but bought it. He may claim he's directly involved in designing SpaceX rockets, but that's most likely a lie. Or maybe he believes it to be true; a couple of months ago, someone claimed that SpaceX had people whose job it was to distract Musk and make him believe he was contributing. The way he mismanaged Twitter makes pretty clear he doesn't really know what he's doing. Even if the decision to buy was made after too much wine, he's had plenty of time to sober up since then, but he just keeps doubling down on all the worst decisions. He's a great salesman. Or was, at least. He was like Steve Jobs who could sell the amazing work of Woz and other Apple engineers. But that charisma has gotten seriously dented now.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoMight be interesting to consider whether you live in a bubble.
- mcv 3y agoIt's always worth looking outside your bubble. His mismanagement of Twitter has not exactly improved people's trust in how he's running his other companies. There was definitely a significant chunk of hype in the enthusiasm for Tesla and SpaceX, and that's really been dying down. It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage.
- danans 3y ago> It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage. To unpackage this further: a big part of Tesla's "cool" was that in allowed customers have luxury and performance while not trading off being "green", and by implication being pro-social. It was a have-your-cake-and-eat-it deal, for those who could afford it. People who had to accept tradeoffs bought a Nissan Leaf. Now there are more EV options, and Musk's behavior has done irreparable damage to the pro-social brand associations that Tesla had. It's now more associated with the tech-bro archetype, and all the baggage that carries, similar to how Wall St guys were associated with Lambos a few decades ago. That said, I still see plenty of new Teslas on the road in liberal areas, but they are often rationalized in practical terms, not with the religious zeal that customers used to have.
- dallyo 3y agoI agree. I think the fact that tesla started with the roadster was a genius move - proving that electric cars can be far superior in performance compared to ICE. Everyone else in the space was going for boring efficiency, and they showed that it could be the best of both worlds.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoTBH I'm astonished by how many Teslas I see here in rural MN. Even saw my first Rivian last week!
- theshrike79 3y agoTesla is actually doing really well now that Musk is busy recouping the 20 billion he's lost on Twitter already. =)
- dallyo 3y agoI think it's too early to say, I think we need to see how well they perform a year or so from now.
- the_optimist 3y agoZero evidence “the brand is in crisis.” Your repetition of of this suggests you are (most likely unintentionally) playing a validation role in the “wrap-up smear.”
- dallyo 3y agoExcuse me - what do you mean by my "repetition" of this? I've only expressed this view today, in response to this thread. I'm also not familiar with the term “wrap-up smear" - perhaps I am guilty of that, could you explain please?
- the_optimist 3y agoYou assert “the brand is in crisis.” Is this your mere speculation? The very nature of a brand involves community reputation. A gossip campaign of an improperly predicated assertion is called a “wrap-up smear” in some circles. What’s your basis?
- augment003 3y agoCurious why you are so invested in a spirited defense of Elon Musk’s brand?