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For cars with automatic software updates, I suspect Tesla could exert some influence over how fast the car degrades. Forced obsolescence has been used before, a
by mcv 4y ago
For cars with automatic software updates, I suspect Tesla could exert some influence over how fast the car degrades. Forced obsolescence has been used before, and some companies got away with it. Though doing it with cars would probably be going way too far for a lot of people.
- dallyo 4y agoThat would be a terrible move though, especially now with the brand in crisis because of Musk's recent behaviour.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- yaseer 4y agoWhat makes you say the brand is in crisis? Asking because I am curious to see this take, not to dispute it.
- mcv 4y agoI don't think Tesla is necessarily in crisis, but Musk's behaviour definitely has some impact on the trust people have in his company. It's still a big car brand obviously, but to a lot of people, Tesla isn't as cool anymore. Backpedaling on promises isn't going to help.
- akmarinov 4y agoWell it’s that + they’ve never had a big exterior design overhaul for their vehicles. So they’ve been pretty much selling the same cars for 10 years now. Eventually it gets old when everyone has the same looking car.
- mcv 4y agoTo be perfectly honest, I think most cars these days look the same. It seems like there's only a handful of designs that most car makers tend to stick to, with only minor variations.
- dallyo 4y agoWas going to say this too. Compared to 40 years ago, car designs are not very diverse. I suppose because there is an optimal aerodynamic shape for each class of car, and we are converging on that.
- dallyo 4y agoI agree in general, but what about the cybertruck? Probably the most radical design of a production car in a long time.
- dzhiurgis 4y agoWhich is good environmentally - cheaper to produce, less bugs, cheaper maintenance.
- threeseed 4y agoBecause Tesla is a brand that relied entirely on the CEO for PR/Marketing. And it's indisputable that Twitter is in serious trouble. By Musk's own admission the company is worth less than half what he paid for it. Revenue has plummeted, toxicity is rampant, lawsuits are increasing and Twitter Blue has been a disaster that will likely be researched for years. And so all of this chaos has dragged Musk's reputation down which in turn is affecting Tesla.
- throwntoday 4y ago[dead]
- kramerger 4y agoTesla has two problems right now: fewer cars sold despite price cuts and quality issues are finally reaching courts which may also affect their brand image. Is this a crisis? Too early to say, but nevertheless this all happend while competitors are catching up and latest offerings from German manufacturers looks very promising. There is a very real chance Tesla can loose the luxury EV segment.
- throwaway-blaze 4y agoI don't know. I have a 2014 Model S that I'd like to replace. The list of EVs that are actually _available now_ at list price as opposed to an order/wait list or an upcharge over list from dealer is pretty small (another Tesla, Chevy Bolt, Porsche Tacan/Audi eTron GT). I agree there will soon be more choices, but that's going to be a problem in 2 years, especially in the luxury segment.
- dallyo 4y agoTo add to the comments already made - IMO it's because the customer base is generally left leaning environmentally aware types, and Musk's public behaviour recently is not well aligned with that. Electric cars are still not fully mainstream, but there are many more options from other manufacturers now. He's basically alienated a lot of the consumers that were "brand champions".
- pfannkuchen 4y agoSo what I have seen him say and do seems genuine and I don’t really think this is happening, but what if the environmentally aware types market is saturated and he is trying to push the brand into a new demographic— pickup truck buyers, I suppose, and interestingly they have a pickup truck planned as well…
- dallyo 4y agoThat's an interesting take on the situation. I find it hard to believe though - for one thing it would be a huge risk to reorientate your brand like that, and also the designs for their pickups are not exactly conservative. (Incidentally I have a pre-order for the cybertruck - it was only 100EUR, and refundable, so kind of a casual decision. No news on when they will be available still though!).
- pfannkuchen 4y agoIt depends on whether it impacts “repeat purchases” or “first time test drives”. I could see the political stuff impacting the latter significantly more than the former, assuming the product is good. But again I don’t think it’s actually happening, it would be too Machiavellian for reality.
- dallyo 4y agoI think it will impact both - surely a lot of the potential repeat purchases are from people that had ethical motivations to buy an electric car - they probably wont give up on electric, but there are a number of good alternative options now on the market.
- augment003 4y agoI was talking to a friend this weekend who just bought a Tesla. He really didn’t want to if he could find an alternative, purely because of Musk and Twitter. Seems like a brand in crisis to me.
- detrites 4y agoI don't agree with many things he's said, however, having his his own opinions or expressing them, or running his companies how he believes will make them a success doesn't strike me as bad behaviour. Certainly, he's excelled going his way so far.
- dallyo 4y agoIt's undeniable that he's achieved amazing things with telsa and spaceX, but he's constantly undermining himself with his public statements.
- mcv 4y agoEverybody believed he was a genius, a real-life Tony Stark, and then he started to believe that too, and thought he couldn't fail. And that's when the crazy ideas came. If he'd stuck to running Tesla and SpaceX to the best of his ability, without picking stupid internet fights, and keeping his Twitter addiction in check, he'd still have all that respect, and not just wasted $44B.
- dallyo 4y agoIt seems to me that he's quite mindful of the possibility of failure - he's often quoted as saying that gambled everything on telsa, but only estimated a 10% chance of success (who knows if he really believed that at the time). And I think he's the closest thing we have to a real life tony stark - he's certainly a visionary. I get the impression that his odd tweets, and decisions like buying Twitter, happened after too much "red wine, ambien and vintage records".
- mcv 4y agoBut he's quite clearly not a "real life Tony Stark". He didn't invent any of the stuff he sells. He didn't found Tesla, but bought it. He may claim he's directly involved in designing SpaceX rockets, but that's most likely a lie. Or maybe he believes it to be true; a couple of months ago, someone claimed that SpaceX had people whose job it was to distract Musk and make him believe he was contributing. The way he mismanaged Twitter makes pretty clear he doesn't really know what he's doing. Even if the decision to buy was made after too much wine, he's had plenty of time to sober up since then, but he just keeps doubling down on all the worst decisions. He's a great salesman. Or was, at least. He was like Steve Jobs who could sell the amazing work of Woz and other Apple engineers. But that charisma has gotten seriously dented now.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoMight be interesting to consider whether you live in a bubble.
- mcv 4y agoIt's always worth looking outside your bubble. His mismanagement of Twitter has not exactly improved people's trust in how he's running his other companies. There was definitely a significant chunk of hype in the enthusiasm for Tesla and SpaceX, and that's really been dying down. It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage.
- danans 4y ago> It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage. To unpackage this further: a big part of Tesla's "cool" was that in allowed customers have luxury and performance while not trading off being "green", and by implication being pro-social. It was a have-your-cake-and-eat-it deal, for those who could afford it. People who had to accept tradeoffs bought a Nissan Leaf. Now there are more EV options, and Musk's behavior has done irreparable damage to the pro-social brand associations that Tesla had. It's now more associated with the tech-bro archetype, and all the baggage that carries, similar to how Wall St guys were associated with Lambos a few decades ago. That said, I still see plenty of new Teslas on the road in liberal areas, but they are often rationalized in practical terms, not with the religious zeal that customers used to have.
- dallyo 4y agoI agree. I think the fact that tesla started with the roadster was a genius move - proving that electric cars can be far superior in performance compared to ICE. Everyone else in the space was going for boring efficiency, and they showed that it could be the best of both worlds.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y agoTBH I'm astonished by how many Teslas I see here in rural MN. Even saw my first Rivian last week!
- theshrike79 4y agoTesla is actually doing really well now that Musk is busy recouping the 20 billion he's lost on Twitter already. =)
- dallyo 4y agoI think it's too early to say, I think we need to see how well they perform a year or so from now.
- the_optimist 4y agoZero evidence “the brand is in crisis.” Your repetition of of this suggests you are (most likely unintentionally) playing a validation role in the “wrap-up smear.”
- dallyo 4y agoExcuse me - what do you mean by my "repetition" of this? I've only expressed this view today, in response to this thread. I'm also not familiar with the term “wrap-up smear" - perhaps I am guilty of that, could you explain please?
- the_optimist 4y agoYou assert “the brand is in crisis.” Is this your mere speculation? The very nature of a brand involves community reputation. A gossip campaign of an improperly predicated assertion is called a “wrap-up smear” in some circles. What’s your basis?
- augment003 4y agoCurious why you are so invested in a spirited defense of Elon Musk’s brand?
- vegardx 4y agoFor what it's worth Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity. I guess there's some truth to the stated goal, but I imagine it was more about nudging people to start charging at home. The affected models happen to be a lot of those with unlimited supercharging. I think the offer they've made is a decent one. Looking at my charging habits I would actually have preferred the $5k rebate over 6 years of supercharging. I wouldn't want to spend 30 minutes every week at supercharger, and charging over-night at home is dirt cheap.
- Reason077 4y ago> "For what it's worth Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity." This limitation is not based on the vehicle model you drive but based on the age and condition of the battery. Certain high-milage battery packs that have been supercharged frequently during their life tend to be the ones affected. But if you replace an old, rate-limited battery with a new (or newer) one, you get back the full charging speed.
- vegardx 4y agoYou're right. But they only recently started removing the rate-limiting when you got a new pack, which there was a lot of fuss about. I imagine there's quite an overlap of cars with unlimited supercharging and frequent supercharging.
- flockonus 4y ago> charging over-night at home is dirt cheap Today it is, but "energy crisis" headlines are pilling up.
- bacchusracine 4y ago>Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity. Apple didn't get away with slowing down iPhones for this stated purpose, what makes Tesla think they can get away with it?
- Reason077 4y agoTesla seem pretty good for this. Even some of the oldest cars (eg: original Model S from 2012) still receive software updates.
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoI don't think that's particularly impressive, given that we're talking about a car.
- Reason077 4y agoI don’t think there are many other car brands who provide regular software updates for their 2012 models.
- mrguyorama 4y agoMost cars from 2012 don't NEED regular software updates.
- zaroth 4y agoWhat does the all-caps “need” even mean in this sentence?
- mensetmanusman 4y agoIt is when you consider that not even google has accomplished this with android.
- bool3max 4y agoAndroid vs. a 3 ton vehicle?
- rwalle 4y agoTo put it in perspective, a new car typically has a 3-5 year warranty while a new phone has a one year warranty (unless the local law requires a longer warranty). btw Android is not an end product like a car and Google doesn't really "provide updates" for Android phones, but I'll let they pass.