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Highway to Ruin: The crash of Southern Airways flight 242 (2022)
- eigenhombre 4y agoI wonder about the "Last" in the title, and how common road landings are in general. We had one not far from us awhile back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QOMDyMZD3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QOMDyMZD3k, saw the plane from a bridge on my bike commute home... a strange day was had by all, with zero casualties.
- gpderetta 4y agoI guess the article implicitly refers to commercial aviation.
- wlesieutre 4y agoOne in Knoxville earlier this year as well, small plane and no injuries. I guess the article is talking about large commercial flights. https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2023/01/21/small-plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-interstate-40-in-knoxville/69828896007/ https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2023/01/21/small-p...
- eigenhombre 4y agoAmazing video in that link!
- ledauphin 4y agoyeah, i think this is maybe the best video of a road landing ive ever seen.
- kube-system 4y agoThat looked like a nasty prop strike, and a bit of a strike to the wing tip too. There's tons of clips on youtube where it appears people set them down without damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUdFOuHvGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUdFOuHvGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1I2Mk-MHV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1I2Mk-MHV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MlRRM9tpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3MlRRM9tpA
- GavinMcG 4y agoThe article did not use that headline, and is explicit about what it claims: > no passenger jet pilot has tried again since (emphasis added)
- mindcrime 4y agoThere was at least one (successful) such landing (small plane, not commercial) in NC last year as well[1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCgrGTZdd4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCgrGTZdd4A
- rob74 4y agoThat's why HN has a rule to post articles with their original title... and that is "Highway to Ruin: The crash of Southern Airways flight 242".
- nanidin 4y agoI agree, the headline has been editorialized in order to drive engagement.
- robohoe 4y agoThere was another one recently this past year where the pilot landed on Interstate 355.
- buildsjets 4y agoWhat a cute little Ercoupe. Also, I really appreciated the CBS2 headline shot at 0:26 - "PLANE ON LSD."
- outworlder 4y agoAn Ercoupe needs about 300m to land normally.
- matthewdgreen 4y agoThe article says the following: "it seems that the crash permanently killed the idea of landing large airliners on highways. This Hollywood staple makes for good cinema, but in real life it usually ends in catastrophe — and while McKenzie and Keele were not the first to discover this, they were the last,no passenger jet pilot has tried again since."
- zokier 4y agoSome countries maintain special segments of highways specifically for aircraft operation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip Apparently they are uncommon in US? I guess there are enough general airstrips and open space to make them not necessary
- gpderetta 4y agoI guess these were mostly built in Europe for warplanes, in preparation of a conflict between NATO and USSR, with the expectation that most military airports would be out of commissions after the initial exchanges.
- jltsiren 4y agoI think it's more about protecting the aircraft, which are vulnerable on the ground. If you disperse your air force, your casualties will be lower when the enemy attacks your bases.
- ano-ther 4y agoWouldn’t they be kind of obvious targets too?
- gpderetta 4y agoSure, but the more viable landing strips you have, the more are likely to be viable at anyone time. I understand that Ukraine put to good use its highways after the initial Russian attack that temporarily put out of order many of its airports.
- jefftk 4y ago"The highway strips can be converted from motorways to airbases typically within 24 to 48 hours." Sounds like it wouldn't work for an emergency landing?
- zokier 4y ago
- phkahler 4y ago>> But the reason they didn’t try to land there was simple: neither the pilots nor the Atlanta controller knew it existed. The airport, not being intended for use by large aircraft, was not marked on the pilots’ charts, and because it lay outside Atlanta Center’s area of responsibility, it wasn’t on their charts either. Or maybe one of the pilots had turned toward it, having spent time in the area during his military service (see earlier in the article). Maybe they turned toward it but the weather in that direction turned out to be terrible so they tried for the recommended airports... Maybe.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoI'm told that the reason for the wide powerline/signpost margins of midwest highways, was so that B-52s could land on them. There was a fascinating book, called Outside Lies Magic[0], where he talks about these kinds of things. [0] https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/john-r-stilgoe/outside-lies-magic/ https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/john-r-stilgoe/ou...
- wombatpm 4y agoI57 near Rantoul, IL near Chanute AFB has a particularly straight section of road with no overpasses (any cross roads go under) for just this reason.
- Kon-Peki 4y agoThis seems rather unlikely. I-57 parallels the old Illinois Central rail route, with a jog to the west and then south every time it needs to avoid a town along the railroad. It seems rather certain that the southerly sections are perfectly straight because they take over existing county roads, which are a perfectly square grid of streets thanks to the Land Ordinance of 1785 and Northwest Ordinance of 1787. This approach would have resulted in the absolute minimum cost of acquiring the land to build the highway, so it is probably why I-57 looks the way it does. It's pretty easy to imagine that the only reason I-57 exists is as a political quid-pro-quo and therefore they'd try to build it as cheaply as possible. If you wanted to go from Chicago to Memphis & New Orleans, you could take I-55, but then you also have to go through the state capital and St. Louis. So instead, if you live in the politically-powerful areas on the Southside of Chicago (where the first mayor Daley lived - perhaps the most powerful mayor in America back when the Interstate system was started), you could have a highway built specifically for you! You don't have to waste time driving past the people you hate on the west side, you can skip the people you hate in Springfield, you can skip the people you hate in St. Louis, and then the Interstate ends when it connects back up with I-55 north of Memphis. PS - Chanute got BRACC'ed about 30 years ago.
- wombatpm 4y ago
- tomohawk 4y ago> a carrier specializing in short flights between cities across the South. Many of these routes would not be viable today due to improved roads, but in the 1970s it was still common to fly these brief “puddle-jumper” routes using midsized jet aircraft It used to be that if it took 4 hours or more to drive to a place, it was worth taking a plane. I remember those days fondly. Flying was convenient, enjoyable, and drama free. Now, with the TSA and the ever longer FAA delays, the cutoff is more like 10 hours.
- AlbertCory 4y ago"Last Highway Landing" -- not! Unless "of a commercial aircraft" is implied. Because a private plane landed on 280 (in the Bay Area) back in the 1980s. I actually met the pilot who did it; his engine threw a rod and he was not going to get back to Palo Alto Airport. Fortunately, a freeway has plenty of room, if there aren't cars on it.
- ledauphin 4y agohighway/road landings of small aircraft happen in the US on a pretty regular basis. the biggest risk is still probably power lines, not cars. a small aircraft landing on a road will be going about the same speed as highway traffic, so unless it's really busy, drivers will usually notice an airplane in front of them and have time to slow down.
- Turing_Machine 4y agoPeople land their bush planes on roads here in Alaska all the time. Often without authorization, true, but it still happens.
- CrazyStat 4y agoFrom the post: > Lastly, one other safety lesson which came from flight 242 may not have come about due to any recommendation or research project: among pilots, it seems that the crash permanently killed the idea of landing large airliners on highways. This Hollywood staple makes for good cinema, but in real life it usually ends in catastrophe — and while McKenzie and Keele were not the first to discover this, they were the last, as no passenger jet pilot has tried again since. I'm sure the author is aware that small planes still occasionally land on highways.
- genewitch 4y ago> killed the idea of landing large airliners on highways says so right there. The author explains stuff in a way for laypersons to understand. I actually prefer some of the imprecise "color" the author ads to his write-ups of crashes. as an aside i imagine the damage to the road surface (and probably subsurface) would be astounding.
- tspike 4y agoInterestingly, the article gets the name of the lead flight attendant wrong. She is Catherine, not Anne. This article contains her statement and many additional photos. https://ashevilleoralhistoryproject.com/2013/07/08/lucky-few/ https://ashevilleoralhistoryproject.com/2013/07/08/lucky-few...
- Miraste 4y agoThe NTSB report this article draws on lists her as Anne: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR7803.pdf https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/... (page 50) Nickname, maybe. Edit: It's one of her middle names, which I learned from her obituary, rest in peace. http://www.southernairways.org/obit-catherine-cooper.html http://www.southernairways.org/obit-catherine-cooper.html
- reso 4y agoStrange to read a flight transcript from before cockpit hygiene training. Transcripts of major incidents today sound like office meetings. These pilots sound emotional and disorganized comparatively.
- gpderetta 4y agoA slightly more recent (and famous) highway landing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider Not in the US but in Canada, and technically not an highway but a racetrack.
- stall84 4y agoAllow me to rant: As a CFI, and lifelong aviation nutcase.. one who has been described by a few of my instructors in the past as 'morbidly' researching aviation accidents kind of obsessively (other instructors of mine realize on the contrary its a very wise past-time), this is a particular MASSIVE peeve of mine. Just a few months ago here in Atlanta a small single engine plane made an emergency landing on I-985 (actually on an exit ramp leading off of it), around 5PM .. Anyone around here knows that interstate and exit ramp would be packed around that time of day. But somehow, thankfully, no cars were wrecked and the plane/pilot survived with just a collapsed main gear. So what's the problem with that? Well.. directly adjacent, and in the exact same direction of travel of the exit ramp was a wide opened, plowed, clay field that was being prepped for a building construction. I don't know if flight simulator (how i started as a kid actually) or something else is to blame, but so many new pilots get this idea in their head of emergency landing on roads/highways .. and that is such a horrible idea with reasons that should be obvious to anyone.. regardless of being a pilot or not. Imagine for a second your wife/gf or partner were picking up the kids or whatever and driving home on that exit ramp that day.. All of a sudden a plane comes out of nowhere and of course frightens the heck out of them.. they regain focus on the road to see the car in front has slammed on brakes for the same reason.. before they know it.. a high-speed impact has happened, with injuries or worse to the occupants (all the while the emergency landing plane glides effortlessly to a stop on the exit ramp.. leaving a wake of destruction.) That example is just showing what can happen to everyone else, the story this is attached to is a perfect example of what can actually happen to the plane and occupants itself. Power lines, tree limbs, cars, power poles, .. all exist around roads. If you are making an emergency landing.. look for a field first, only if everything on the ground is covered by trees and no grass/dirt/field exists to land on should you resort to landing on a road. In the case of an airliner its the same story, even though yes they are heavier.. and there will be more landing gear "dig" into the turf/soil/grass than in a small plane.. but the fundamental reasons why you want to avoid roads are the same.. you'll just have to compensate with your angle and velocity at landing.. oh btw.. soft grass/turf do also help with absorbing some of the E from the landing. Just some things I wanted to get off my chest, and the title of this article seemed the perfect opp to do so.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
- pfdietz 4y agoIt mentioned TACA 110! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5UUr9RXfTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5UUr9RXfTY
- meowitzer 4y ago1. aviate, 2. navigate, 3. communicate. There's a reason they come in this order, because in a total loss of power situation your best bet is to preserve your gliding ability as much as possible (for which any maneuver could compromise) until you know for sure where you want to touch down.
- oehrksjfk 4y agoRelated, in a way: https://www.flyingmag.com/aftermath-vectors-to-zmb/ https://www.flyingmag.com/aftermath-vectors-to-zmb/
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y agoI know nothing about planes or flying or landing beyond what any commercial airline passenger does. But I have to believe that if you had to, landing on a section of interstate out here in New Mexico would be a fairly good and safe choice. None of the hazards in the article exist, e.g: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3953268,-104.5952232,3a,75y,207.32h,82.46t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sP3E5hgLwGDXOlV5Rp83DCQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DP3E5hgLwGDXOlV5Rp83DCQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D89.97099%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3953268,-104.5952232,3a,75y,...
- aidenn0 4y agoThe fields next to that interstate is rather more safe since it's far less likely to have passenger vehicles on it.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y agoEver driven I-25 north of Las Vegas, NM. Less likely? yes. Far less likely? no. Especially at night, but even by day, that is one empty highway (for its size).
- jcrawfordor 4y agoBut Springer, just a bit further south, has a pretty nice municipal airport. Sort of underscores why road landings aren't all that common, freeways tend to have airports adjacent to them at pretty frequent intervals. In NM it's common enough for small airports to be immediately adjacent to the freeway with the runway parallel to it that people joke about mixing them up.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y agoExcellent rebuttal of my point. Springer even has 5k' to land on, large enough for a moderate size commercial plane.