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Important to note that the unlimited charging is for the life of the vehicle, not for the life of the customer. This means that you're going to lose the perk ev

Important to note that the unlimited charging is for the life of the vehicle, not for the life of the customer. This means that you're going to lose the perk eventually as your car degrades, it's just probably not as quickly as Tesla would like. Would be interesting to consider, at what point will it become more expensive to keep your car in good running condition, including replacing the batteries, than it is to pay for charging?

weego 4y ago
Tesla customer service strategy falling into the ship of theseus issue.
- djmips 4y ago
  For the purpose of identity - I believe that all you need is the VIN - there have been some questionable restorations of classic cars with largely new replacement parts but the original VIN plates gives the ability to charge as if it were a 'restored' original car.
mcv 4y ago
For cars with automatic software updates, I suspect Tesla could exert some influence over how fast the car degrades. Forced obsolescence has been used before, and some companies got away with it. Though doing it with cars would probably be going way too far for a lot of people.
- dallyo 4y ago
  That would be a terrible move though, especially now with the brand in crisis because of Musk's recent behaviour.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yaseer 4y ago
    What makes you say the brand is in crisis? Asking because I am curious to see this take, not to dispute it.
    - mcv 4y ago
      I don't think Tesla is necessarily in crisis, but Musk's behaviour definitely has some impact on the trust people have in his company. It's still a big car brand obviously, but to a lot of people, Tesla isn't as cool anymore. Backpedaling on promises isn't going to help.
      - akmarinov 4y ago
        Well it’s that + they’ve never had a big exterior design overhaul for their vehicles. So they’ve been pretty much selling the same cars for 10 years now. Eventually it gets old when everyone has the same looking car.
        mcv 4y ago
        To be perfectly honest, I think most cars these days look the same. It seems like there's only a handful of designs that most car makers tend to stick to, with only minor variations.
        dallyo 4y ago
        Was going to say this too. Compared to 40 years ago, car designs are not very diverse. I suppose because there is an optimal aerodynamic shape for each class of car, and we are converging on that.
        danans 4y ago
        Hyundai and Rivian both have really interesting and atypical design. There are also some very interesting designs in the microcar segment where aerodynamics don't matter as much.
  - detrites 4y ago
    I don't agree with many things he's said, however, having his his own opinions or expressing them, or running his companies how he believes will make them a success doesn't strike me as bad behaviour. Certainly, he's excelled going his way so far.
    - dallyo 4y ago
      It's undeniable that he's achieved amazing things with telsa and spaceX, but he's constantly undermining himself with his public statements.
      - mcv 4y ago
        Everybody believed he was a genius, a real-life Tony Stark, and then he started to believe that too, and thought he couldn't fail. And that's when the crazy ideas came. If he'd stuck to running Tesla and SpaceX to the best of his ability, without picking stupid internet fights, and keeping his Twitter addiction in check, he'd still have all that respect, and not just wasted $44B.
        dallyo 4y ago
        It seems to me that he's quite mindful of the possibility of failure - he's often quoted as saying that gambled everything on telsa, but only estimated a 10% chance of success (who knows if he really believed that at the time). And I think he's the closest thing we have to a real life tony stark - he's certainly a visionary. I get the impression that his odd tweets, and decisions like buying Twitter, happened after too much "red wine, ambien and vintage records".
        mcv 4y ago
        But he's quite clearly not a "real life Tony Stark". He didn't invent any of the stuff he sells. He didn't found Tesla, but bought it. He may claim he's directly involved in designing SpaceX rockets, but that's most likely a lie. Or maybe he believes it to be true; a couple of months ago, someone claimed that SpaceX had people whose job it was to distract Musk and make him believe he was contributing. The way he mismanaged Twitter makes pretty clear he doesn't really know what he's doing. Even if the decision to buy was made after too much wine, he's had plenty of time to sober up since then, but he just keeps doubling down on all the worst decisions. He's a great salesman. Or was, at least. He was like Steve Jobs who could sell the amazing work of Woz and other Apple engineers. But that charisma has gotten seriously dented now.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Might be interesting to consider whether you live in a bubble.
    - mcv 4y ago
      It's always worth looking outside your bubble. His mismanagement of Twitter has not exactly improved people's trust in how he's running his other companies. There was definitely a significant chunk of hype in the enthusiasm for Tesla and SpaceX, and that's really been dying down. It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage.
      - danans 4y ago
        > It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage. To unpackage this further: a big part of Tesla's "cool" was that in allowed customers have luxury and performance while not trading off being "green", and by implication being pro-social. It was a have-your-cake-and-eat-it deal, for those who could afford it. People who had to accept tradeoffs bought a Nissan Leaf. Now there are more EV options, and Musk's behavior has done irreparable damage to the pro-social brand associations that Tesla had. It's now more associated with the tech-bro archetype, and all the baggage that carries, similar to how Wall St guys were associated with Lambos a few decades ago. That said, I still see plenty of new Teslas on the road in liberal areas, but they are often rationalized in practical terms, not with the religious zeal that customers used to have.
        dallyo 4y ago
        I agree. I think the fact that tesla started with the roadster was a genius move - proving that electric cars can be far superior in performance compared to ICE. Everyone else in the space was going for boring efficiency, and they showed that it could be the best of both worlds.
        HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        TBH I'm astonished by how many Teslas I see here in rural MN. Even saw my first Rivian last week!
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    Tesla is actually doing really well now that Musk is busy recouping the 20 billion he's lost on Twitter already. =)
    - dallyo 4y ago
      I think it's too early to say, I think we need to see how well they perform a year or so from now.
  - the_optimist 4y ago
    Zero evidence “the brand is in crisis.” Your repetition of of this suggests you are (most likely unintentionally) playing a validation role in the “wrap-up smear.”
    - dallyo 4y ago
      Excuse me - what do you mean by my "repetition" of this? I've only expressed this view today, in response to this thread. I'm also not familiar with the term “wrap-up smear" - perhaps I am guilty of that, could you explain please?
      - the_optimist 4y ago
        You assert “the brand is in crisis.” Is this your mere speculation? The very nature of a brand involves community reputation. A gossip campaign of an improperly predicated assertion is called a “wrap-up smear” in some circles. What’s your basis?
    - augment003 4y ago
      Curious why you are so invested in a spirited defense of Elon Musk’s brand?
- vegardx 4y ago
  For what it's worth Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity. I guess there's some truth to the stated goal, but I imagine it was more about nudging people to start charging at home. The affected models happen to be a lot of those with unlimited supercharging. I think the offer they've made is a decent one. Looking at my charging habits I would actually have preferred the $5k rebate over 6 years of supercharging. I wouldn't want to spend 30 minutes every week at supercharger, and charging over-night at home is dirt cheap.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    > "For what it's worth Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity." This limitation is not based on the vehicle model you drive but based on the age and condition of the battery. Certain high-milage battery packs that have been supercharged frequently during their life tend to be the ones affected. But if you replace an old, rate-limited battery with a new (or newer) one, you get back the full charging speed.
    - vegardx 4y ago
      You're right. But they only recently started removing the rate-limiting when you got a new pack, which there was a lot of fuss about. I imagine there's quite an overlap of cars with unlimited supercharging and frequent supercharging.
  - flockonus 4y ago
    > charging over-night at home is dirt cheap Today it is, but "energy crisis" headlines are pilling up.
  - bacchusracine 4y ago
    >Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity. Apple didn't get away with slowing down iPhones for this stated purpose, what makes Tesla think they can get away with it?
- Reason077 4y ago
  Tesla seem pretty good for this. Even some of the oldest cars (eg: original Model S from 2012) still receive software updates.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    I don't think that's particularly impressive, given that we're talking about a car.
    - Reason077 4y ago
      I don’t think there are many other car brands who provide regular software updates for their 2012 models.
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        Most cars from 2012 don't NEED regular software updates.
        zaroth 4y ago
        What does the all-caps “need” even mean in this sentence?
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      It is when you consider that not even google has accomplished this with android.
      - bool3max 4y ago
        Android vs. a 3 ton vehicle?
      - rwalle 4y ago
        To put it in perspective, a new car typically has a 3-5 year warranty while a new phone has a one year warranty (unless the local law requires a longer warranty). btw Android is not an end product like a car and Google doesn't really "provide updates" for Android phones, but I'll let they pass.
Reason077 4y ago
> "Important to note that the unlimited charging is for the life of the vehicle, not for the life of the customer." My Dad had a 2019 Model X, which I think was one of the last to be offered with unlimited free supercharging. He loved it but unfortunately someone crashed into it and it was written off. A double blow because the Model X is not currently sold in our country, so he's had to wait a long time (and is still waiting) for a replacement, and secondly he's lost the unlimited free supercharging.
waynesonfire 4y ago
curious how tesla deals with a potential issue re ship of theseus?

weego 4y ago

Tesla customer service strategy falling into the ship of theseus issue.

djmips 4y ago
For the purpose of identity - I believe that all you need is the VIN - there have been some questionable restorations of classic cars with largely new replacement parts but the original VIN plates gives the ability to charge as if it were a 'restored' original car.

mcv 4y ago

For cars with automatic software updates, I suspect Tesla could exert some influence over how fast the car degrades. Forced obsolescence has been used before, and some companies got away with it. Though doing it with cars would probably be going way too far for a lot of people.

dallyo 4y ago
That would be a terrible move though, especially now with the brand in crisis because of Musk's recent behaviour.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- yaseer 4y ago
  What makes you say the brand is in crisis? Asking because I am curious to see this take, not to dispute it.
  - mcv 4y ago
    I don't think Tesla is necessarily in crisis, but Musk's behaviour definitely has some impact on the trust people have in his company. It's still a big car brand obviously, but to a lot of people, Tesla isn't as cool anymore. Backpedaling on promises isn't going to help.
    - akmarinov 4y ago
      Well it’s that + they’ve never had a big exterior design overhaul for their vehicles. So they’ve been pretty much selling the same cars for 10 years now. Eventually it gets old when everyone has the same looking car.
      - mcv 4y ago
        To be perfectly honest, I think most cars these days look the same. It seems like there's only a handful of designs that most car makers tend to stick to, with only minor variations.
        dallyo 4y ago
        Was going to say this too. Compared to 40 years ago, car designs are not very diverse. I suppose because there is an optimal aerodynamic shape for each class of car, and we are converging on that.
        danans 4y ago
        Hyundai and Rivian both have really interesting and atypical design. There are also some very interesting designs in the microcar segment where aerodynamics don't matter as much.
- detrites 4y ago
  I don't agree with many things he's said, however, having his his own opinions or expressing them, or running his companies how he believes will make them a success doesn't strike me as bad behaviour. Certainly, he's excelled going his way so far.
  - dallyo 4y ago
    It's undeniable that he's achieved amazing things with telsa and spaceX, but he's constantly undermining himself with his public statements.
    - mcv 4y ago
      Everybody believed he was a genius, a real-life Tony Stark, and then he started to believe that too, and thought he couldn't fail. And that's when the crazy ideas came. If he'd stuck to running Tesla and SpaceX to the best of his ability, without picking stupid internet fights, and keeping his Twitter addiction in check, he'd still have all that respect, and not just wasted $44B.
      - dallyo 4y ago
        It seems to me that he's quite mindful of the possibility of failure - he's often quoted as saying that gambled everything on telsa, but only estimated a 10% chance of success (who knows if he really believed that at the time). And I think he's the closest thing we have to a real life tony stark - he's certainly a visionary. I get the impression that his odd tweets, and decisions like buying Twitter, happened after too much "red wine, ambien and vintage records".
        mcv 4y ago
        But he's quite clearly not a "real life Tony Stark". He didn't invent any of the stuff he sells. He didn't found Tesla, but bought it. He may claim he's directly involved in designing SpaceX rockets, but that's most likely a lie. Or maybe he believes it to be true; a couple of months ago, someone claimed that SpaceX had people whose job it was to distract Musk and make him believe he was contributing. The way he mismanaged Twitter makes pretty clear he doesn't really know what he's doing. Even if the decision to buy was made after too much wine, he's had plenty of time to sober up since then, but he just keeps doubling down on all the worst decisions. He's a great salesman. Or was, at least. He was like Steve Jobs who could sell the amazing work of Woz and other Apple engineers. But that charisma has gotten seriously dented now.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Might be interesting to consider whether you live in a bubble.
  - mcv 4y ago
    It's always worth looking outside your bubble. His mismanagement of Twitter has not exactly improved people's trust in how he's running his other companies. There was definitely a significant chunk of hype in the enthusiasm for Tesla and SpaceX, and that's really been dying down. It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage.
    - danans 4y ago
      > It's not as "cool" to get a Tesla anymore, and that's undeniably brand damage. To unpackage this further: a big part of Tesla's "cool" was that in allowed customers have luxury and performance while not trading off being "green", and by implication being pro-social. It was a have-your-cake-and-eat-it deal, for those who could afford it. People who had to accept tradeoffs bought a Nissan Leaf. Now there are more EV options, and Musk's behavior has done irreparable damage to the pro-social brand associations that Tesla had. It's now more associated with the tech-bro archetype, and all the baggage that carries, similar to how Wall St guys were associated with Lambos a few decades ago. That said, I still see plenty of new Teslas on the road in liberal areas, but they are often rationalized in practical terms, not with the religious zeal that customers used to have.
      - dallyo 4y ago
        I agree. I think the fact that tesla started with the roadster was a genius move - proving that electric cars can be far superior in performance compared to ICE. Everyone else in the space was going for boring efficiency, and they showed that it could be the best of both worlds.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        TBH I'm astonished by how many Teslas I see here in rural MN. Even saw my first Rivian last week!
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Tesla is actually doing really well now that Musk is busy recouping the 20 billion he's lost on Twitter already. =)
  - dallyo 4y ago
    I think it's too early to say, I think we need to see how well they perform a year or so from now.
- the_optimist 4y ago
  Zero evidence “the brand is in crisis.” Your repetition of of this suggests you are (most likely unintentionally) playing a validation role in the “wrap-up smear.”
  - dallyo 4y ago
    Excuse me - what do you mean by my "repetition" of this? I've only expressed this view today, in response to this thread. I'm also not familiar with the term “wrap-up smear" - perhaps I am guilty of that, could you explain please?
    - the_optimist 4y ago
      You assert “the brand is in crisis.” Is this your mere speculation? The very nature of a brand involves community reputation. A gossip campaign of an improperly predicated assertion is called a “wrap-up smear” in some circles. What’s your basis?
  - augment003 4y ago
    Curious why you are so invested in a spirited defense of Elon Musk’s brand?
vegardx 4y ago
For what it's worth Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity. I guess there's some truth to the stated goal, but I imagine it was more about nudging people to start charging at home. The affected models happen to be a lot of those with unlimited supercharging. I think the offer they've made is a decent one. Looking at my charging habits I would actually have preferred the $5k rebate over 6 years of supercharging. I wouldn't want to spend 30 minutes every week at supercharger, and charging over-night at home is dirt cheap.
- Reason077 4y ago
  > "For what it's worth Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity." This limitation is not based on the vehicle model you drive but based on the age and condition of the battery. Certain high-milage battery packs that have been supercharged frequently during their life tend to be the ones affected. But if you replace an old, rate-limited battery with a new (or newer) one, you get back the full charging speed.
  - vegardx 4y ago
    You're right. But they only recently started removing the rate-limiting when you got a new pack, which there was a lot of fuss about. I imagine there's quite an overlap of cars with unlimited supercharging and frequent supercharging.
- flockonus 4y ago
  > charging over-night at home is dirt cheap Today it is, but "energy crisis" headlines are pilling up.
- bacchusracine 4y ago
  >Tesla has been limiting how fast older models are able to charge at superchargers, with the stated goal of extending battery longevity. Apple didn't get away with slowing down iPhones for this stated purpose, what makes Tesla think they can get away with it?
Reason077 4y ago
Tesla seem pretty good for this. Even some of the oldest cars (eg: original Model S from 2012) still receive software updates.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I don't think that's particularly impressive, given that we're talking about a car.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    I don’t think there are many other car brands who provide regular software updates for their 2012 models.
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      Most cars from 2012 don't NEED regular software updates.
      - zaroth 4y ago
        What does the all-caps “need” even mean in this sentence?
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    It is when you consider that not even google has accomplished this with android.
    - bool3max 4y ago
      Android vs. a 3 ton vehicle?
    - rwalle 4y ago
      To put it in perspective, a new car typically has a 3-5 year warranty while a new phone has a one year warranty (unless the local law requires a longer warranty). btw Android is not an end product like a car and Google doesn't really "provide updates" for Android phones, but I'll let they pass.

Reason077 4y ago

> "Important to note that the unlimited charging is for the life of the vehicle, not for the life of the customer." My Dad had a 2019 Model X, which I think was one of the last to be offered with unlimited free supercharging. He loved it but unfortunately someone crashed into it and it was written off. A double blow because the Model X is not currently sold in our country, so he's had to wait a long time (and is still waiting) for a replacement, and secondly he's lost the unlimited free supercharging.

waynesonfire 4y ago

curious how tesla deals with a potential issue re ship of theseus?