4 ms·

I've been a big advocate of them, but they broke their promise to grandfather in users on original plans, they doubled their prices, and have everyone counting

I've been a big advocate of them, but they broke their promise to grandfather in users on original plans, they doubled their prices, and have everyone counting the number of searches they make. Until they get a reasonable unlimited price plan I wouldn't use them.

palata 4y ago
I guess you can't have it all. Either you are the product, or you pay for it.
- user3939382 4y ago
  I'm willing to pay but not $25/month.
  - palata 4y ago
    Well if you wanted to support the idea of paying for your product, you could totally decide to limit Kagi to 10$/month, and switching back to a free (as in "you are the product") alternative when your credit is finished. Now I'm expecting you to potentially say "I would pay 10$, but I refuse to have to go through the trouble of changing my default search engine twice a month", which brings me an idea: Actually Kagi should maybe offer that option: after you're done with your monthly credit, they redirect everything to the free engine of your choice. That would provide an easy way for people to support them with the amount they are willing to pay, without having to change anything in their setup. EDIT: already suggested: https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search-query-to-other-search-engine-when-run-out-of-credit https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search...
freediver 4y ago
As the founder of Kagi, I want to address the recent changes and challenges we have faced. When we made our initial plans, we believed they were both realistic and sustainable. However, the search market has experienced dramatic changes in the past six months, far more than in the previous 16 years. Additionally, we've been confronted with an economic downturn. As a small, bootstrapped business, Kagi has had to make some difficult decisions to adapt. We were left with two options: - Stick to the original plan, which would result in significant financial losses and potentially lead to bankruptcy within a few months. - Adjust our strategy to ensure the survival and growth of the business. While we are not pleased with having to alter our plans, we have done our utmost to adapt to these new circumstances. It's important to understand that there are only three ways to fund search services - through advertisers, venture capital, and in Kagi's case, users. That is the reality we must face. We acknowledge that the rollout of these changes could have been executed more effectively. However, as a small bootstrapped team without a dedicated communications department, we have limited resources. I personally oversee crucial business decisions, manage a fully remote team, and supervise the development of complex software products such as search, browser, and AI solutions. There is only so much one person can do. We would love to offer unlimited searches for $5, but the reality of the search market dictates otherwise. That said, we are continuously evaluating our pricing structure, and we may update it again as some costs, such as AI, have not been as high as anticipated. We are determined to navigate these challenging times and maintain a high level of professionalism. We appreciate your understanding and support as we work towards a sustainable future for Kagi.
- tannhaeuser 4y ago
  By the changes in the search market, I'm assuming you mean the introduction of ChatGPT and the higher prices Bing is able to command due to bundling it, or rather the brand boost and raise of profit expectations at this time. Which would spell further trouble ahead for kagi and ddg going forward, wouldn't it?
  - freediver 4y ago
    You are correct, the ascent of ChatGPT and its impact on the search industry has been substantial. Fortunately, the swift commoditization of models (and rising pressure from open-source) is reducing their potential influence to pricing, quicker than we initially anticipated. On the other handm, we were forced to reassess our approach due to the situation with Bing, which led us to invest further in alternative partnerships and strengthen our own infrastructure. And despite the challenges this transition presented, it ultimately instilled a renewed sense of optimism in our team. The most difficult aspect of this process has been receiving emails from customers who felt let down by the way we managed the change. We are committed to learning from this experience and improving our communication and execution in the future.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      Have you considered or are you working on building your own index? I'm not in the space, but that seems to me like the natural way to avoid having your company brought down on a whim by Microsoft, in the long term.
      - eitland 4y ago
        ... or even partnering with someone like search.marginalia.nu? I'm actually serious. At least I think I check Marginalia more often than bing or ddg or google.
        freediver 4y ago
        We actually do partner with Marginalia, through our Teclis index. Marginalia is an amazing project and I hope it continues to grow.

palata 4y ago

I guess you can't have it all. Either you are the product, or you pay for it.

user3939382 4y ago
I'm willing to pay but not $25/month.
- palata 4y ago
  Well if you wanted to support the idea of paying for your product, you could totally decide to limit Kagi to 10$/month, and switching back to a free (as in "you are the product") alternative when your credit is finished. Now I'm expecting you to potentially say "I would pay 10$, but I refuse to have to go through the trouble of changing my default search engine twice a month", which brings me an idea: Actually Kagi should maybe offer that option: after you're done with your monthly credit, they redirect everything to the free engine of your choice. That would provide an easy way for people to support them with the amount they are willing to pay, without having to change anything in their setup. EDIT: already suggested: https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search-query-to-other-search-engine-when-run-out-of-credit https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search...

freediver 4y ago

As the founder of Kagi, I want to address the recent changes and challenges we have faced. When we made our initial plans, we believed they were both realistic and sustainable. However, the search market has experienced dramatic changes in the past six months, far more than in the previous 16 years. Additionally, we've been confronted with an economic downturn. As a small, bootstrapped business, Kagi has had to make some difficult decisions to adapt. We were left with two options: - Stick to the original plan, which would result in significant financial losses and potentially lead to bankruptcy within a few months. - Adjust our strategy to ensure the survival and growth of the business. While we are not pleased with having to alter our plans, we have done our utmost to adapt to these new circumstances. It's important to understand that there are only three ways to fund search services - through advertisers, venture capital, and in Kagi's case, users. That is the reality we must face. We acknowledge that the rollout of these changes could have been executed more effectively. However, as a small bootstrapped team without a dedicated communications department, we have limited resources. I personally oversee crucial business decisions, manage a fully remote team, and supervise the development of complex software products such as search, browser, and AI solutions. There is only so much one person can do. We would love to offer unlimited searches for $5, but the reality of the search market dictates otherwise. That said, we are continuously evaluating our pricing structure, and we may update it again as some costs, such as AI, have not been as high as anticipated. We are determined to navigate these challenging times and maintain a high level of professionalism. We appreciate your understanding and support as we work towards a sustainable future for Kagi.

tannhaeuser 4y ago
By the changes in the search market, I'm assuming you mean the introduction of ChatGPT and the higher prices Bing is able to command due to bundling it, or rather the brand boost and raise of profit expectations at this time. Which would spell further trouble ahead for kagi and ddg going forward, wouldn't it?
- freediver 4y ago
  You are correct, the ascent of ChatGPT and its impact on the search industry has been substantial. Fortunately, the swift commoditization of models (and rising pressure from open-source) is reducing their potential influence to pricing, quicker than we initially anticipated. On the other handm, we were forced to reassess our approach due to the situation with Bing, which led us to invest further in alternative partnerships and strengthen our own infrastructure. And despite the challenges this transition presented, it ultimately instilled a renewed sense of optimism in our team. The most difficult aspect of this process has been receiving emails from customers who felt let down by the way we managed the change. We are committed to learning from this experience and improving our communication and execution in the future.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Have you considered or are you working on building your own index? I'm not in the space, but that seems to me like the natural way to avoid having your company brought down on a whim by Microsoft, in the long term.
    - eitland 4y ago
      ... or even partnering with someone like search.marginalia.nu? I'm actually serious. At least I think I check Marginalia more often than bing or ddg or google.
      - freediver 4y ago
        We actually do partner with Marginalia, through our Teclis index. Marginalia is an amazing project and I hope it continues to grow.