9 ms·

Kagi. See: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/search-operators.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/search-operators.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/feat

Kagi. See: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/search-operators.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/search-operators.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/filtering-results.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/filtering-results.html

user3939382 4y ago
I've been a big advocate of them, but they broke their promise to grandfather in users on original plans, they doubled their prices, and have everyone counting the number of searches they make. Until they get a reasonable unlimited price plan I wouldn't use them.
- palata 4y ago
  I guess you can't have it all. Either you are the product, or you pay for it.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    I'm willing to pay but not $25/month.
    - palata 4y ago
      Well if you wanted to support the idea of paying for your product, you could totally decide to limit Kagi to 10$/month, and switching back to a free (as in "you are the product") alternative when your credit is finished. Now I'm expecting you to potentially say "I would pay 10$, but I refuse to have to go through the trouble of changing my default search engine twice a month", which brings me an idea: Actually Kagi should maybe offer that option: after you're done with your monthly credit, they redirect everything to the free engine of your choice. That would provide an easy way for people to support them with the amount they are willing to pay, without having to change anything in their setup. EDIT: already suggested: https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search-query-to-other-search-engine-when-run-out-of-credit https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search...
- freediver 4y ago
  As the founder of Kagi, I want to address the recent changes and challenges we have faced. When we made our initial plans, we believed they were both realistic and sustainable. However, the search market has experienced dramatic changes in the past six months, far more than in the previous 16 years. Additionally, we've been confronted with an economic downturn. As a small, bootstrapped business, Kagi has had to make some difficult decisions to adapt. We were left with two options: - Stick to the original plan, which would result in significant financial losses and potentially lead to bankruptcy within a few months. - Adjust our strategy to ensure the survival and growth of the business. While we are not pleased with having to alter our plans, we have done our utmost to adapt to these new circumstances. It's important to understand that there are only three ways to fund search services - through advertisers, venture capital, and in Kagi's case, users. That is the reality we must face. We acknowledge that the rollout of these changes could have been executed more effectively. However, as a small bootstrapped team without a dedicated communications department, we have limited resources. I personally oversee crucial business decisions, manage a fully remote team, and supervise the development of complex software products such as search, browser, and AI solutions. There is only so much one person can do. We would love to offer unlimited searches for $5, but the reality of the search market dictates otherwise. That said, we are continuously evaluating our pricing structure, and we may update it again as some costs, such as AI, have not been as high as anticipated. We are determined to navigate these challenging times and maintain a high level of professionalism. We appreciate your understanding and support as we work towards a sustainable future for Kagi.
  - tannhaeuser 4y ago
    By the changes in the search market, I'm assuming you mean the introduction of ChatGPT and the higher prices Bing is able to command due to bundling it, or rather the brand boost and raise of profit expectations at this time. Which would spell further trouble ahead for kagi and ddg going forward, wouldn't it?
    - freediver 4y ago
      You are correct, the ascent of ChatGPT and its impact on the search industry has been substantial. Fortunately, the swift commoditization of models (and rising pressure from open-source) is reducing their potential influence to pricing, quicker than we initially anticipated. On the other handm, we were forced to reassess our approach due to the situation with Bing, which led us to invest further in alternative partnerships and strengthen our own infrastructure. And despite the challenges this transition presented, it ultimately instilled a renewed sense of optimism in our team. The most difficult aspect of this process has been receiving emails from customers who felt let down by the way we managed the change. We are committed to learning from this experience and improving our communication and execution in the future.
remram 4y ago
$5/mo for 200 searches, $25/mo for unlimited? Loading more pages count as new search? Does anyone actually pay that? It looks like something a real search engine would post on April 1st.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- freediver 4y ago
  Search has a cost. You can either pay for your searches and own your results or have someone else, a complete stranger, pay for your searches and have the results be in their best interest. Also check: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/why-pay-for-search.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/why-pay-for-search.html
  - evilotto 4y ago
    I think it was Mark Twain who said about Web 2.0, "In every transaction where money changes hands there is a buyer, a seller, and a product. If you are not the buyer or the seller, then you are the product."
    - wraptile 4y ago
      Unfortunately usually you are the buyer and the product these days even when companies say otherwise (e.g. Apple)
- geysersam 4y ago
  $25 per month for a service you use every day. Sounds fair. If you save 1-2 hours per month not having to use a search engine that tries to trip you, that's a net win. However, personally I use Google with a browser plugin that lets me hide unwanted results, and I find it works quite well. Although I don't do much elaborate searching using operators etc.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > Loading more pages count as new search? I have not ever loaded a new page with Kagi. I generally need fewer searches than with other search engines, between their general features, and customized ranking, they are just that much better. That said, I’m also in the early adopter plan ($10 for 1000 searches) which is enough for me (unlike the non-early one, as I sometimes go over 700 searches).
Fabricio20 4y ago
200 searches per month at $5? Holy christ I might do that in a single day! I guess this pricing isn't meant to countries outside of the US.
- palata 4y ago
  Have you ever tried counting your searches? You may be surprised. I'm slightly above the 500/month.
  - anonymousab 4y ago
    If your browser tries to prefetch search results from the address or search bar then it might add up very, very quickly.
    - rippercushions 4y ago
      AFAICT Chrome (and hence other Chromium browsers) don't do this, and if you auto complete straight to a result from your history that doesn't count as a search engine hit either. I'm a heavy search user with Kagi on both mobile and desktop, and I've never even come close to 1000 searches/mo. YMMV.
  - vinc 4y ago
    Not the OP but I just checked my 3 months history and I'm at 800, 469, and 682 searches on DuckDuckGo and 466, 535, and 482 on Google. I feel like I'm a heavy search engine user and I'd have guessed more than this. I'm considering paying for Kagi but the price seems a bit high, especially considering that I replaced some of my searches with ChatGPT and I pay much less for using the API of OpenAI. But maybe their API price is not sustainable. For $5 or $10 per month I'd prefer to self-host a search engine and a language model on a server I own.
    - palata 4y ago
      I completely agree with the fact that not everyone can afford paying for Kagi. However, I seem to read from a lot of people who could afford it, but find it too expensive. The thing is that searches have a price. If Google makes it free, that's because they make money from the data they gather, right? And probably the data is worth more than people guess. Maybe Kagi would be able to be cheaper if it had more users (some kind of economy of scale), but in the meantime, that's the only alternative I see. So I'm ready to pay for it now to help prove that it is viable to ask people to pay for their product. Because I can afford it.

user3939382 4y ago

I've been a big advocate of them, but they broke their promise to grandfather in users on original plans, they doubled their prices, and have everyone counting the number of searches they make. Until they get a reasonable unlimited price plan I wouldn't use them.

palata 4y ago
I guess you can't have it all. Either you are the product, or you pay for it.
- user3939382 4y ago
  I'm willing to pay but not $25/month.
  - palata 4y ago
    Well if you wanted to support the idea of paying for your product, you could totally decide to limit Kagi to 10$/month, and switching back to a free (as in "you are the product") alternative when your credit is finished. Now I'm expecting you to potentially say "I would pay 10$, but I refuse to have to go through the trouble of changing my default search engine twice a month", which brings me an idea: Actually Kagi should maybe offer that option: after you're done with your monthly credit, they redirect everything to the free engine of your choice. That would provide an easy way for people to support them with the amount they are willing to pay, without having to change anything in their setup. EDIT: already suggested: https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search-query-to-other-search-engine-when-run-out-of-credit https://kagifeedback.org/d/512-automatically-redirect-search...
freediver 4y ago
As the founder of Kagi, I want to address the recent changes and challenges we have faced. When we made our initial plans, we believed they were both realistic and sustainable. However, the search market has experienced dramatic changes in the past six months, far more than in the previous 16 years. Additionally, we've been confronted with an economic downturn. As a small, bootstrapped business, Kagi has had to make some difficult decisions to adapt. We were left with two options: - Stick to the original plan, which would result in significant financial losses and potentially lead to bankruptcy within a few months. - Adjust our strategy to ensure the survival and growth of the business. While we are not pleased with having to alter our plans, we have done our utmost to adapt to these new circumstances. It's important to understand that there are only three ways to fund search services - through advertisers, venture capital, and in Kagi's case, users. That is the reality we must face. We acknowledge that the rollout of these changes could have been executed more effectively. However, as a small bootstrapped team without a dedicated communications department, we have limited resources. I personally oversee crucial business decisions, manage a fully remote team, and supervise the development of complex software products such as search, browser, and AI solutions. There is only so much one person can do. We would love to offer unlimited searches for $5, but the reality of the search market dictates otherwise. That said, we are continuously evaluating our pricing structure, and we may update it again as some costs, such as AI, have not been as high as anticipated. We are determined to navigate these challenging times and maintain a high level of professionalism. We appreciate your understanding and support as we work towards a sustainable future for Kagi.
- tannhaeuser 4y ago
  By the changes in the search market, I'm assuming you mean the introduction of ChatGPT and the higher prices Bing is able to command due to bundling it, or rather the brand boost and raise of profit expectations at this time. Which would spell further trouble ahead for kagi and ddg going forward, wouldn't it?
  - freediver 4y ago
    You are correct, the ascent of ChatGPT and its impact on the search industry has been substantial. Fortunately, the swift commoditization of models (and rising pressure from open-source) is reducing their potential influence to pricing, quicker than we initially anticipated. On the other handm, we were forced to reassess our approach due to the situation with Bing, which led us to invest further in alternative partnerships and strengthen our own infrastructure. And despite the challenges this transition presented, it ultimately instilled a renewed sense of optimism in our team. The most difficult aspect of this process has been receiving emails from customers who felt let down by the way we managed the change. We are committed to learning from this experience and improving our communication and execution in the future.

remram 4y ago

$5/mo for 200 searches, $25/mo for unlimited? Loading more pages count as new search? Does anyone actually pay that? It looks like something a real search engine would post on April 1st.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
freediver 4y ago
Search has a cost. You can either pay for your searches and own your results or have someone else, a complete stranger, pay for your searches and have the results be in their best interest. Also check: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/why-pay-for-search.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/why-pay-for-search.html
- evilotto 4y ago
  I think it was Mark Twain who said about Web 2.0, "In every transaction where money changes hands there is a buyer, a seller, and a product. If you are not the buyer or the seller, then you are the product."
  - wraptile 4y ago
    Unfortunately usually you are the buyer and the product these days even when companies say otherwise (e.g. Apple)
geysersam 4y ago
$25 per month for a service you use every day. Sounds fair. If you save 1-2 hours per month not having to use a search engine that tries to trip you, that's a net win. However, personally I use Google with a browser plugin that lets me hide unwanted results, and I find it works quite well. Although I don't do much elaborate searching using operators etc.
Semaphor 4y ago
> Loading more pages count as new search? I have not ever loaded a new page with Kagi. I generally need fewer searches than with other search engines, between their general features, and customized ranking, they are just that much better. That said, I’m also in the early adopter plan ($10 for 1000 searches) which is enough for me (unlike the non-early one, as I sometimes go over 700 searches).

Fabricio20 4y ago

200 searches per month at $5? Holy christ I might do that in a single day! I guess this pricing isn't meant to countries outside of the US.

palata 4y ago
Have you ever tried counting your searches? You may be surprised. I'm slightly above the 500/month.
- anonymousab 4y ago
  If your browser tries to prefetch search results from the address or search bar then it might add up very, very quickly.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    AFAICT Chrome (and hence other Chromium browsers) don't do this, and if you auto complete straight to a result from your history that doesn't count as a search engine hit either. I'm a heavy search user with Kagi on both mobile and desktop, and I've never even come close to 1000 searches/mo. YMMV.
- vinc 4y ago
  Not the OP but I just checked my 3 months history and I'm at 800, 469, and 682 searches on DuckDuckGo and 466, 535, and 482 on Google. I feel like I'm a heavy search engine user and I'd have guessed more than this. I'm considering paying for Kagi but the price seems a bit high, especially considering that I replaced some of my searches with ChatGPT and I pay much less for using the API of OpenAI. But maybe their API price is not sustainable. For $5 or $10 per month I'd prefer to self-host a search engine and a language model on a server I own.
  - palata 4y ago
    I completely agree with the fact that not everyone can afford paying for Kagi. However, I seem to read from a lot of people who could afford it, but find it too expensive. The thing is that searches have a price. If Google makes it free, that's because they make money from the data they gather, right? And probably the data is worth more than people guess. Maybe Kagi would be able to be cheaper if it had more users (some kind of economy of scale), but in the meantime, that's the only alternative I see. So I'm ready to pay for it now to help prove that it is viable to ask people to pay for their product. Because I can afford it.