4 ms·

So charge before you are down to 30 miles?

by borski 4y ago

prepend 4y ago
The point is that 90% is not good when the alternative is 99.99%. For gas stations, 99.99% of the time the pump works. So much so that I don’t even consider that it doesn’t work. That’s the level of reliability that I expect.
- vel0city 4y ago
  I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. In fact over the last year I've had more experiences with gas pumps being broken than EV dispensers not working.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    Put a different way, although I have seen plastic bags over pump handles, I have never pulled into a gas station and not been able to fill up.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      I have on several occasions. Power outages, being out of gas, having to clean tanks because of a bad batch of gas, a gas station I used to go to on road trips going out of business, credit card processing issues, getting tired of lines so I go elsewhere, and just being closed for the night are all failure modes of gas pumps I've personally experienced. Some of these way more than once. I haven't personally experienced any failures to get a charge on CCS chargers though. I do agree if the power can't run the pumps it won't run the chargers either, but there hasn't been a similar major power outage since I got an EV and tried to charge on a public charger. That reminds me, I've experienced bad gas require me to make repairs on my cars. I've never personally had an EVSE break my car, but I do contend it could happen.
      - prepend 4y ago
        I guess you’re unlucky or maybe I’m lucky. I think I’ve filled up 1500 times and never had to leave a station and go to another because it wasn’t working. And I’ve never experienced bad gas requiring repairs. I’d say 95% of these fillups were in the US if that matters.
        vel0city 4y ago
        1500 times is almost every week for 30 years. I'm probably only at 600-700 or so fill-ups personally, practically all US. One occasion my fuel filter got badly clogged a few miles from a gas station on a road trip. I've had it happen to one of my vehicles and I've seen it happen to a few friends as well. The power issues or just being completely out of gas were usually from hurricanes or the big freeze in Texas. You've also never encountered or seen a gas station that was closed for the night? Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? I'm not even talking about full service stations, but I've encountered many gas stations where the store closes at like 2 or 3 AM meaning no attendant so they can't leave the pumps on. Its the worst when you're running low on gas on a late night road trip, you just have enough gas to roll into town, and the first gas station you roll up to, the only one you can see from the highway, is closed for the night. Bonus points, that small tiny town in the middle of no where also has absolutely abysmal cell reception so no phone maps. Better hope the TomTom shoved in the glove compartment eight years ago knows a couple of other gas stations in the few miles you've got left in the tank and that those stations still exist and are not also closed. Fun times. I've had this happen way more than once. And its definitely happened more than once to me where credit card processing was down so they were asking everyone to pay cash. I don't usually carry cash on me, so buying gas wasn't happening. And then finally I'll plan on getting gas at a Costco or Sams Club, see the massive lines, and decide to go drive another mile or two and pay more. Are there never lines at Costco or Sams Club stations near you? And then finally I've definitely pulled into a station only to realize every handle has a bag on it.
        jjav 4y ago
        > Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? You don't need every pump to be open, just one. Living in the west coast of the US I spend a lot of time driving around desert areas which are pretty remote. Many times I've rolled into remote gas stations in the middle of nowhere at ~3am where everything was dark but the pumps were operating. You are either supremely unlucky, or vastly exaggerating the issue. It is very difficult to not find a working gas pump in the US, they're everywhere. Anecdotes are anectodes, but I've been driving 35+ years and I have many cars and I drive a lot including much time in remote areas and yet, I have not even once experienced any of the problems you assert are common. In order to promote EVs it is important to be honest about the advantages but also the disadvantages.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Most gas stations have more then 2-4 pumps, and whatever number they have, you aren't at risk of waiting 30min for previous user to finish, or driving 30 miles to find the next pump. I say this as an exclusively EV driver for 5+ years myself... let's not defend the indefensible (EA's CCS network).
    - vel0city 4y ago
      I'm just sharing my personal experiences. Every time I've charged at a DCFC in the past year all dispensers appeared to be working and I was able to either plug and charge or tap to pay with Google Wallet on my phone. I did not wait in a line once nor did I fail to charge on the first try. Meanwhile in the last year I've waited in lines several times to get gas, and I've pulled up to a pump only to find it out of order three times this last year and seen many others with bags over the pump handle signifying they're out of order. It's definitely not 99.99% of gas pumps working.
      - borski 4y ago
        Precisely. The percentages are fairly similar, I’d guess. But we’d need actual objective data to show that.
      - not_a_shill 4y ago
        Who is lining up at broken pumps???
        vel0city 4y ago
        I've gone to pump gas multiple times in the last year. On a few occasions, I pulled up to a pump and found out it wasn't working after I got out of my car and tried to use the pump. On other occasions, I waited in lines to access pumps.
  - jjav 4y ago
    > I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. Yes, I do see those often enough. Maybe once a week, so way more than 0.01% But of course, even the tiniest of gas stations has multiple pumps, four is the smallest I recall seeing and the smallest one around here is 8 pumps. One or two may be out of service regularly, but in more than 35 years of driving I have never pulled into a gas station where all 4/8+ pumps were out of service simultaneously. And then, even if that happened, given the way gas stations congregate, there is another one across the street which will be working.

So charge before you are down to 30 miles?

by borski 4y ago

So charge before you are down to 30 miles?

The point is that 90% is not good when the alternative is 99.99%. For gas stations, 99.99% of the time the pump works. So much so that I don’t even consider that it doesn’t work. That’s the level of reliability that I expect.

vel0city 4y ago
I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. In fact over the last year I've had more experiences with gas pumps being broken than EV dispensers not working.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  Put a different way, although I have seen plastic bags over pump handles, I have never pulled into a gas station and not been able to fill up.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I have on several occasions. Power outages, being out of gas, having to clean tanks because of a bad batch of gas, a gas station I used to go to on road trips going out of business, credit card processing issues, getting tired of lines so I go elsewhere, and just being closed for the night are all failure modes of gas pumps I've personally experienced. Some of these way more than once. I haven't personally experienced any failures to get a charge on CCS chargers though. I do agree if the power can't run the pumps it won't run the chargers either, but there hasn't been a similar major power outage since I got an EV and tried to charge on a public charger. That reminds me, I've experienced bad gas require me to make repairs on my cars. I've never personally had an EVSE break my car, but I do contend it could happen.
    - prepend 4y ago
      I guess you’re unlucky or maybe I’m lucky. I think I’ve filled up 1500 times and never had to leave a station and go to another because it wasn’t working. And I’ve never experienced bad gas requiring repairs. I’d say 95% of these fillups were in the US if that matters.
      - vel0city 4y ago
        1500 times is almost every week for 30 years. I'm probably only at 600-700 or so fill-ups personally, practically all US. One occasion my fuel filter got badly clogged a few miles from a gas station on a road trip. I've had it happen to one of my vehicles and I've seen it happen to a few friends as well. The power issues or just being completely out of gas were usually from hurricanes or the big freeze in Texas. You've also never encountered or seen a gas station that was closed for the night? Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? I'm not even talking about full service stations, but I've encountered many gas stations where the store closes at like 2 or 3 AM meaning no attendant so they can't leave the pumps on. Its the worst when you're running low on gas on a late night road trip, you just have enough gas to roll into town, and the first gas station you roll up to, the only one you can see from the highway, is closed for the night. Bonus points, that small tiny town in the middle of no where also has absolutely abysmal cell reception so no phone maps. Better hope the TomTom shoved in the glove compartment eight years ago knows a couple of other gas stations in the few miles you've got left in the tank and that those stations still exist and are not also closed. Fun times. I've had this happen way more than once. And its definitely happened more than once to me where credit card processing was down so they were asking everyone to pay cash. I don't usually carry cash on me, so buying gas wasn't happening. And then finally I'll plan on getting gas at a Costco or Sams Club, see the massive lines, and decide to go drive another mile or two and pay more. Are there never lines at Costco or Sams Club stations near you? And then finally I've definitely pulled into a station only to realize every handle has a bag on it.
        jjav 4y ago
        > Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? You don't need every pump to be open, just one. Living in the west coast of the US I spend a lot of time driving around desert areas which are pretty remote. Many times I've rolled into remote gas stations in the middle of nowhere at ~3am where everything was dark but the pumps were operating. You are either supremely unlucky, or vastly exaggerating the issue. It is very difficult to not find a working gas pump in the US, they're everywhere. Anecdotes are anectodes, but I've been driving 35+ years and I have many cars and I drive a lot including much time in remote areas and yet, I have not even once experienced any of the problems you assert are common. In order to promote EVs it is important to be honest about the advantages but also the disadvantages.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Most gas stations have more then 2-4 pumps, and whatever number they have, you aren't at risk of waiting 30min for previous user to finish, or driving 30 miles to find the next pump. I say this as an exclusively EV driver for 5+ years myself... let's not defend the indefensible (EA's CCS network).
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I'm just sharing my personal experiences. Every time I've charged at a DCFC in the past year all dispensers appeared to be working and I was able to either plug and charge or tap to pay with Google Wallet on my phone. I did not wait in a line once nor did I fail to charge on the first try. Meanwhile in the last year I've waited in lines several times to get gas, and I've pulled up to a pump only to find it out of order three times this last year and seen many others with bags over the pump handle signifying they're out of order. It's definitely not 99.99% of gas pumps working.
    - borski 4y ago
      Precisely. The percentages are fairly similar, I’d guess. But we’d need actual objective data to show that.
    - not_a_shill 4y ago
      Who is lining up at broken pumps???
      - vel0city 4y ago
        I've gone to pump gas multiple times in the last year. On a few occasions, I pulled up to a pump and found out it wasn't working after I got out of my car and tried to use the pump. On other occasions, I waited in lines to access pumps.
- jjav 4y ago
  > I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. Yes, I do see those often enough. Maybe once a week, so way more than 0.01% But of course, even the tiniest of gas stations has multiple pumps, four is the smallest I recall seeing and the smallest one around here is 8 pumps. One or two may be out of service regularly, but in more than 35 years of driving I have never pulled into a gas station where all 4/8+ pumps were out of service simultaneously. And then, even if that happened, given the way gas stations congregate, there is another one across the street which will be working.