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I met someone claiming to be one of Tony’s best friends who told me that he had his drug induced idea that he needed to burn himself as a death and rebirth thin

by ada1981 3y ago

I met someone claiming to be one of Tony’s best friends who told me that he had his drug induced idea that he needed to burn himself as a death and rebirth thing. That he had a secret death cult he was trying to start. He also said that the man who ran into the Man at Burning Man a couple years ago had his final conversation with Tony before he self immolated. The guy who shared was a rather successful entrepreneur and otherwise I had no reason to suspect he was lying.

reso 3y ago
Jesus christ. Can you corroborate that or add any... checkable details to that in any way? I was at that burn and that was really fucked up.
- bredren 3y ago
  I was also in that burn ring. Repeating this story, with no factual detail unnecessarily dredges up a dark and traumatic event for so many people. To suggest Hsieh would be associated with or have been influenced by the person who died that night is a shame. The burn is no Eden, and participants are not saints. However, there is a positive spirit of gifting that Hsieh did foster outside the national event. The work he did downtown Vegas was a testament to this. If anything, that is what should be remembered about Hsieh’s connection to BM.
- ada1981 3y ago
  I can't outside what was claimed to be a first person account by a sober, successful, health oriented person. I saw little incentive for him to manufacture that story -- he could have for sure.
steve_adams_86 3y ago
Someone’s success in business doesn’t mean they’re a reliable source or information. You also have no reason to suspect they wouldn’t be motivated to lie. Even if they weren’t, there’s no reason to assume they had sufficient information in the situation to understand what actually happened. One thing that stands out to me: if my best friend died like this, I would have absolutely no desire to spread this information about them after their death.
- gojomo 3y ago
  You wouldn't want to spread "this information" even if it happened to be true, and such truth might help others either navigate their grief, or recognize & head-off similar delusions in the future? FWIW, the detail about the Burning Man self-immolator sounds sketchy in a "heard it from a friend of a friend" urban-legend manner. But the idea that someone with all the other erratic behaviors & drug practices credibly-described in Hsieh's last days also had some odd & self-destructive beliefs about death is unsurprising. Such beliefs are not atypical in various mental illnesses, including those caused or aggravated by drug abuse.
  - kodah 3y ago
    If the new facts materially affect the outcome and are indeed facts, then pointing out or corroborating the truth can be helpful. If they aren't/don't then you're just agitating.
    - gojomo 3y ago
      Agreed: the dispositive factors are: "Is this true?" and "Could this truth help others?" Given the other reports of Hsieh's erratic behavior, including with regard to health practices & psychoactive drugs, & the specific manner in which he ultimately died, it's very plausible he'd developed a fascination with death & self-harm. And some people who do that also seek out others with similar fantasies, sometimes for mutual encouragement, aka, a 'death cult' or 'suicide pact'. Sad but true – and in my estimation, better to be aware of as a real possibility than reflexively deny as likely fabrication.
  - steve_adams_86 3y ago
    I was referring to the burning man but. If I knew it was true beyond a shadow of doubt, I would share it when it was pertinent. If it was through the grapevine or pure speculation, I’d keep it to myself.
    - ada1981 3y ago
      All I know to be true is what the person claimed as first-person knowledge from his personal relationship.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
roflchoppa 3y ago
strange, i had a buddy in high school that went to Burning Man about 10 years ago. Before going he was under the impression that he could control his drug consumption. There was a stark difference in his behavior when he came back, he was more rash in actions. After a couple months he was stuck on pills, last I saw he was not looking too hot. I hope he gets the will to get better.
kodah 3y ago
> He also said that the man who ran into the Man at Burning Man a couple years ago had his final conversation with Tony before he self immolated. His name was Aaron Joel Mitchell. I've supplied an article that timelines Mitchell's night. His last known interactions were with some people he knew from Switzerland. There were no drugs or alcohol found in his system. That's to say, both facts make it highly unlikely he was around Tony. https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2018/02/09/burning-man-death-details-emerge-family-friends-still-wonder-why/312798002/ https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2018/02/09/b...
- gojomo 3y ago
  That's useful context - but both those details in the article seem like indirect hearsay, from people who don't necessarily have the whole story. For example, the drug info isn't from an autopsy, but what some unnamed UC Davis medical staff told Mitchell's grieving mother, and she relayed to the reporter. Similarly, the bit about "friends from Switzerland" is just passed on from Mitchell's friend, with no other confirming details – like, say any reports on Mitchell's last actions from those supposed people. Now, the claim Mitchell last spoke with Hsieh still sounds like a made-up urban-legend to me. But the "Mitchell's mom said" and "Mitchell's friend said" accounts from the RGJ story aren't dispositive either way. And even without drugs, or a dramatic "last talk", it's not inconceivable that Mitchell & Hsieh had met at some point, & even possibly shared a fascination (including when sober!) with fantasies of self-immolation. The world is weird. Distressed/depressed people with synergistic delusions can find each other via the internet easier than ever before.
  - kodah 3y ago
    > For example, the drug info isn't from an autopsy, but what some unnamed UC Davis medical staff told Mitchell's grieving mother, and she relayed to the reporter. Kind of, but I wouldn't call that hearsay. If his mother got it from someone credentialed, it's good info. The caveat to that is that toxicology reports can only detect what's screened for. If he were given a research chemical, for instance, or unknowingly ingested one then we'd never know. All of that is not for not though. There's some things to be learned: - if you're planning on doing a new drug or an old drug from a new supplier then test your stuff and start small. If you're messing with hallucinagens then you need a benzo on stand by. - never accept drugs from people at festivals, full stop. - always have a trip sitter that's sober

reso 3y ago

Jesus christ. Can you corroborate that or add any... checkable details to that in any way? I was at that burn and that was really fucked up.

bredren 3y ago
I was also in that burn ring. Repeating this story, with no factual detail unnecessarily dredges up a dark and traumatic event for so many people. To suggest Hsieh would be associated with or have been influenced by the person who died that night is a shame. The burn is no Eden, and participants are not saints. However, there is a positive spirit of gifting that Hsieh did foster outside the national event. The work he did downtown Vegas was a testament to this. If anything, that is what should be remembered about Hsieh’s connection to BM.
ada1981 3y ago
I can't outside what was claimed to be a first person account by a sober, successful, health oriented person. I saw little incentive for him to manufacture that story -- he could have for sure.

steve_adams_86 3y ago

Someone’s success in business doesn’t mean they’re a reliable source or information. You also have no reason to suspect they wouldn’t be motivated to lie. Even if they weren’t, there’s no reason to assume they had sufficient information in the situation to understand what actually happened. One thing that stands out to me: if my best friend died like this, I would have absolutely no desire to spread this information about them after their death.

gojomo 3y ago
You wouldn't want to spread "this information" even if it happened to be true, and such truth might help others either navigate their grief, or recognize & head-off similar delusions in the future? FWIW, the detail about the Burning Man self-immolator sounds sketchy in a "heard it from a friend of a friend" urban-legend manner. But the idea that someone with all the other erratic behaviors & drug practices credibly-described in Hsieh's last days also had some odd & self-destructive beliefs about death is unsurprising. Such beliefs are not atypical in various mental illnesses, including those caused or aggravated by drug abuse.
- kodah 3y ago
  If the new facts materially affect the outcome and are indeed facts, then pointing out or corroborating the truth can be helpful. If they aren't/don't then you're just agitating.
  - gojomo 3y ago
    Agreed: the dispositive factors are: "Is this true?" and "Could this truth help others?" Given the other reports of Hsieh's erratic behavior, including with regard to health practices & psychoactive drugs, & the specific manner in which he ultimately died, it's very plausible he'd developed a fascination with death & self-harm. And some people who do that also seek out others with similar fantasies, sometimes for mutual encouragement, aka, a 'death cult' or 'suicide pact'. Sad but true – and in my estimation, better to be aware of as a real possibility than reflexively deny as likely fabrication.
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  I was referring to the burning man but. If I knew it was true beyond a shadow of doubt, I would share it when it was pertinent. If it was through the grapevine or pure speculation, I’d keep it to myself.
  - ada1981 3y ago
    All I know to be true is what the person claimed as first-person knowledge from his personal relationship.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

roflchoppa 3y ago

strange, i had a buddy in high school that went to Burning Man about 10 years ago. Before going he was under the impression that he could control his drug consumption. There was a stark difference in his behavior when he came back, he was more rash in actions. After a couple months he was stuck on pills, last I saw he was not looking too hot. I hope he gets the will to get better.

kodah 3y ago

> He also said that the man who ran into the Man at Burning Man a couple years ago had his final conversation with Tony before he self immolated. His name was Aaron Joel Mitchell. I've supplied an article that timelines Mitchell's night. His last known interactions were with some people he knew from Switzerland. There were no drugs or alcohol found in his system. That's to say, both facts make it highly unlikely he was around Tony. https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2018/02/09/burning-man-death-details-emerge-family-friends-still-wonder-why/312798002/ https://www.rgj.com/story/life/arts/burning-man/2018/02/09/b...

gojomo 3y ago
That's useful context - but both those details in the article seem like indirect hearsay, from people who don't necessarily have the whole story. For example, the drug info isn't from an autopsy, but what some unnamed UC Davis medical staff told Mitchell's grieving mother, and she relayed to the reporter. Similarly, the bit about "friends from Switzerland" is just passed on from Mitchell's friend, with no other confirming details – like, say any reports on Mitchell's last actions from those supposed people. Now, the claim Mitchell last spoke with Hsieh still sounds like a made-up urban-legend to me. But the "Mitchell's mom said" and "Mitchell's friend said" accounts from the RGJ story aren't dispositive either way. And even without drugs, or a dramatic "last talk", it's not inconceivable that Mitchell & Hsieh had met at some point, & even possibly shared a fascination (including when sober!) with fantasies of self-immolation. The world is weird. Distressed/depressed people with synergistic delusions can find each other via the internet easier than ever before.
- kodah 3y ago
  > For example, the drug info isn't from an autopsy, but what some unnamed UC Davis medical staff told Mitchell's grieving mother, and she relayed to the reporter. Kind of, but I wouldn't call that hearsay. If his mother got it from someone credentialed, it's good info. The caveat to that is that toxicology reports can only detect what's screened for. If he were given a research chemical, for instance, or unknowingly ingested one then we'd never know. All of that is not for not though. There's some things to be learned: - if you're planning on doing a new drug or an old drug from a new supplier then test your stuff and start small. If you're messing with hallucinagens then you need a benzo on stand by. - never accept drugs from people at festivals, full stop. - always have a trip sitter that's sober