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That seems to reflect my lived experience. Do bilingual people in general seem to be more intelligent? I don't think so. But, like many other things in life, t

That seems to reflect my lived experience. Do bilingual people in general seem to be more intelligent? I don't think so. But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. That doesn't mean you can have the tool and immediately gain the benefits of having it. It just means that compared to someone who does not have the ability to speak a second language, you have less friction to access domains of knowledge locked behind languages other than your native tongue. Having a second car doesn't automatically mean I travel more. But if I used that other one specifically for roadtrips, it puts me in a category of people that is far smaller than the general population or even the general population of drivers.

MichaelZuo 4y ago
If 'bilingualism' is expanded to include math and programming languages I would say it does effect intelligence directly. But then again I haven't met many super-geniuses to compare against.
- elbigbad 4y ago
  If “bilingualism” is expanded even further to include having wealthy parents who are legacies at Harvard, I would say it does have an effect on outcomes.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    I don't get your sarcasm. How do 'wealthy parents who are legacies at Harvard' constitute a language in any form?
    - elbigbad 4y ago
      Ugh, you’re right. I guess they’re as orthogonal to bilingualism and spoken languages as programming languages and math are. My mistake.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, I highly doubt even 10% of readers understand what your trying to say. If your not going to clarify, I'm going to move on.
tstrimple 4y ago
I have to imagine there are parallel benefits as well. Just as a Java developer will become a better Java developer by learning programming languages with other paradigms, I have to believe knowing multiple spoken languages has tangible benefits outside of understanding the language itself.
- qsort 4y ago
  A Java developer becomes a better Java developer if they learn alternative concepts that Java doesn't empasize as much. Learning Lisp, Haskell or C is going to be useful, for example. But a Java developer won't become a better Java developer if they learn C#, which is basically Java with different capitalization conventions. I guess something like that happens for natural languages. You get those benefits if you actively learn new concepts. The difference of course is that you are unlikely to have done that purely by being bilingual. Many bilingual people just picked up 2+ languages as they were growing up.
  - jimsimmons 4y ago
    A confounder in the above study could be that they counted pairs like European languages and English as two different languages when in reality they are very similar. knowing english and german is not knowing two full languages imho. you’ll get more exposure to german culture but it’s not the same as knowing English and a slavic or asian language.
  - courgette 4y ago
    I speak French, English and Spanish. In that order. Some concept exist in one and not the other. Addressing someone in a formal way. Addressing a group a once ( “y’all” ) But I know bits and pieces of German, Latin and Polish… those have lots of grammatical differences that force you to think about the structure of your sentence. Recognize a datif from a ablatif. That type of things. It actually help with writing correct French. But I’m not sure it would make me “better” like learning a functional language or ASM made me a “better” developer.
- slibhb 4y ago
  I'm not so sure. Natural languages are not very much like programming languages. When you speak a language fluently you're able to speak and understand without thinking about it. Children can be fluent with no formal training in grammar. Meanwhile, for me at least, programming is the opposite: I have to learn all the rules on a formal level and my mind can't wander while I'm programming at all. I think the benefits of knowing more natural languages are pretty clear: the ability to speak to and understand more people. Plus the art, entertainment, and other cultural productions you get access to.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
> But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. What are some of those domains, do you think?
- rnjesus 4y ago
  personal example, but after studying mandarin for many years, i can read original texts (like novels, non-classic poetry, and so on) without having to wait for someone to translate it first
- qsort 4y ago
  - You can not be an effective software developer if you don't speak English (it's a second language to many of us). - If you are interested in literature, history, philosophy or adjacent fields, reading sources in their original language is an advantage. Philosophers are more likely to be fluent in German, for instance. - Reading news in foreign languages is often illuminating. - Most translations are just extremely horrible. I can only understand a tiny amount of languages, but I'd rather put in the effort to read in a foreign language than suffer through bad translations.
- evilduck 4y ago
  Probably depends if your view is outside of a popular language looking in or inside a popular language looking out. If you only speak English you probably aren't lacking access to to many fields of study. If you a one of the few who only speak Koro, you probably feel differently about to volume of knowledge available to you.
dukeofdoom 4y ago
One benefit if you know another language, you are more likely to have experienced living in a different culture. So you may take a more meta and critical view of the current cultural trends, not feeling as much pressure to conform.

MichaelZuo 4y ago

If 'bilingualism' is expanded to include math and programming languages I would say it does effect intelligence directly. But then again I haven't met many super-geniuses to compare against.

elbigbad 4y ago
If “bilingualism” is expanded even further to include having wealthy parents who are legacies at Harvard, I would say it does have an effect on outcomes.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  I don't get your sarcasm. How do 'wealthy parents who are legacies at Harvard' constitute a language in any form?
  - elbigbad 4y ago
    Ugh, you’re right. I guess they’re as orthogonal to bilingualism and spoken languages as programming languages and math are. My mistake.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, I highly doubt even 10% of readers understand what your trying to say. If your not going to clarify, I'm going to move on.

tstrimple 4y ago

I have to imagine there are parallel benefits as well. Just as a Java developer will become a better Java developer by learning programming languages with other paradigms, I have to believe knowing multiple spoken languages has tangible benefits outside of understanding the language itself.

qsort 4y ago
A Java developer becomes a better Java developer if they learn alternative concepts that Java doesn't empasize as much. Learning Lisp, Haskell or C is going to be useful, for example. But a Java developer won't become a better Java developer if they learn C#, which is basically Java with different capitalization conventions. I guess something like that happens for natural languages. You get those benefits if you actively learn new concepts. The difference of course is that you are unlikely to have done that purely by being bilingual. Many bilingual people just picked up 2+ languages as they were growing up.
- jimsimmons 4y ago
  A confounder in the above study could be that they counted pairs like European languages and English as two different languages when in reality they are very similar. knowing english and german is not knowing two full languages imho. you’ll get more exposure to german culture but it’s not the same as knowing English and a slavic or asian language.
- courgette 4y ago
  I speak French, English and Spanish. In that order. Some concept exist in one and not the other. Addressing someone in a formal way. Addressing a group a once ( “y’all” ) But I know bits and pieces of German, Latin and Polish… those have lots of grammatical differences that force you to think about the structure of your sentence. Recognize a datif from a ablatif. That type of things. It actually help with writing correct French. But I’m not sure it would make me “better” like learning a functional language or ASM made me a “better” developer.
slibhb 4y ago
I'm not so sure. Natural languages are not very much like programming languages. When you speak a language fluently you're able to speak and understand without thinking about it. Children can be fluent with no formal training in grammar. Meanwhile, for me at least, programming is the opposite: I have to learn all the rules on a formal level and my mind can't wander while I'm programming at all. I think the benefits of knowing more natural languages are pretty clear: the ability to speak to and understand more people. Plus the art, entertainment, and other cultural productions you get access to.

throwawaylinux 4y ago

> But, like many other things in life, the access of even a second language in my opinion gives you another tool to use as intellectual leverage to gain greater or richer understanding to many specific domains that you would otherwise require someone else to digest the information for you. What are some of those domains, do you think?

rnjesus 4y ago
personal example, but after studying mandarin for many years, i can read original texts (like novels, non-classic poetry, and so on) without having to wait for someone to translate it first
qsort 4y ago
- You can not be an effective software developer if you don't speak English (it's a second language to many of us). - If you are interested in literature, history, philosophy or adjacent fields, reading sources in their original language is an advantage. Philosophers are more likely to be fluent in German, for instance. - Reading news in foreign languages is often illuminating. - Most translations are just extremely horrible. I can only understand a tiny amount of languages, but I'd rather put in the effort to read in a foreign language than suffer through bad translations.
evilduck 4y ago
Probably depends if your view is outside of a popular language looking in or inside a popular language looking out. If you only speak English you probably aren't lacking access to to many fields of study. If you a one of the few who only speak Koro, you probably feel differently about to volume of knowledge available to you.

dukeofdoom 4y ago

One benefit if you know another language, you are more likely to have experienced living in a different culture. So you may take a more meta and critical view of the current cultural trends, not feeling as much pressure to conform.