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So the article seems to be right - wait with EVs until they improve. Why suffer the pains of an early adopter?

by noogle 3y ago

mkozlows 3y ago
I think it is absolutely true that people who don't want to be early adopters shouldn't be. At the same time: I had no regrets about being a DVD early adopter, because (hot take incoming) DVDs were in fact better than VHS tapes, and not dealing with VHS's badness was really nice, even if it was also annoying in some ways. Similarly, there are going to be people who are happy being EV early adopters because the (very real) wins of EVs outweigh the early adopter annoyances. "This technology is still relatively new, and if you buy into it, you're going to have some early adopter pains" is a fine message that will help people sort out what they personally want to do, but isn't the same as a blanket "wait until they improve."
- noogle 3y ago
  It's a different risk: if your novel DVD player did not work, you could just watch something else. If your novel EV doesn't charge, you may be left stranded, miss a flight or fail to reach medical care. Moreover, no government planned to ban VCRs using those early problematic DVD players as a justification.
  - jjav 3y ago
    > It's a different risk: if your novel DVD player did not work, you could just watch something else. Also, you could (and nearly everyone did) add a DVD player to your stack but keep the VCR so you had both. Sure, the same is possible with cars, but gets several orders of magnitude more expensive to have multiple cars so it's not practical for many people.
tapoxi 3y ago
As an early adopter, the benefit of less maintenance, home "refueling", and the fact that an EV is more fun to drive offsets the hassle. We've done a few road trips in it, and while road trip charging is annoying (we have a VW ID4, so the CCS network) its still worth dealing with because we enjoy the EV. Personally I think right now EVs are a great second car for almost everyone because you get the benefits of an EV but can fall back to your gasoline car for trips. We're still in the early adopter phase of "primary" car right now, where you need to be aware of the drawbacks.
- nikau 3y ago
  > benefits of an EV but can fall back to your gasoline car for trips. Why not just get a pehv
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    Having both, ICE and EV tech under the hood means more technology that can fail. Heavier than either, less EV range, possibly no subsidy in some jurisdictions, things like that.
    - nikau 3y ago
      That's cool in Gartner research theory land, but Prius and hybrid Camrys confirm its nonsense.
      - barbazoo 3y ago
        > That's cool in Gartner research theory land, but Prius and hybrid Camrys confirm its nonsense. The Prius Prime has a range of 72km according to [0] so it's clearly not "nonsense". [0] https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/prius-prime/features-benefits#/al/features-performance https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/prius-prime/feature...
        nikau 3y ago
        I was referring to the reliability and weight claims. And 72km is still higher than the average US trip distance, and it will kick over to petrol to augment any occasions when you go over that. Its literally the best of both worlds - plug in charging convenience for the bulk of your driving and fast refuelling for the times when you need to do road trips.
- noogle 3y ago
  That's the thing about cars: their real test (or importance) is not the 90% of the time spent in the "happy path" (short, planned drives after a full night charge). It's to address those edge but critical cases - long trips, unexpected drives, off-the-beaten-path routes. Another thing rarely raised is the correlated nature of traffic issues. Charging is fine now, mostly because it seems there is a huge over-provisioning of chargers compared to EVs on the road. What happens with busy days? An evacuation order sending 1M people on the same route at the same time? For ICEV there is an easy solution. Not for EVs.
matthewdgreen 3y ago
Because EVs are fun to drive.

So the article seems to be right - wait with EVs until they improve. Why suffer the pains of an early adopter?

by noogle 3y ago

So the article seems to be right - wait with EVs until they improve. Why suffer the pains of an early adopter?

I think it is absolutely true that people who don't want to be early adopters shouldn't be. At the same time: I had no regrets about being a DVD early adopter, because (hot take incoming) DVDs were in fact better than VHS tapes, and not dealing with VHS's badness was really nice, even if it was also annoying in some ways. Similarly, there are going to be people who are happy being EV early adopters because the (very real) wins of EVs outweigh the early adopter annoyances. "This technology is still relatively new, and if you buy into it, you're going to have some early adopter pains" is a fine message that will help people sort out what they personally want to do, but isn't the same as a blanket "wait until they improve."

noogle 3y ago
It's a different risk: if your novel DVD player did not work, you could just watch something else. If your novel EV doesn't charge, you may be left stranded, miss a flight or fail to reach medical care. Moreover, no government planned to ban VCRs using those early problematic DVD players as a justification.
- jjav 3y ago
  > It's a different risk: if your novel DVD player did not work, you could just watch something else. Also, you could (and nearly everyone did) add a DVD player to your stack but keep the VCR so you had both. Sure, the same is possible with cars, but gets several orders of magnitude more expensive to have multiple cars so it's not practical for many people.

tapoxi 3y ago

As an early adopter, the benefit of less maintenance, home "refueling", and the fact that an EV is more fun to drive offsets the hassle. We've done a few road trips in it, and while road trip charging is annoying (we have a VW ID4, so the CCS network) its still worth dealing with because we enjoy the EV. Personally I think right now EVs are a great second car for almost everyone because you get the benefits of an EV but can fall back to your gasoline car for trips. We're still in the early adopter phase of "primary" car right now, where you need to be aware of the drawbacks.

nikau 3y ago
> benefits of an EV but can fall back to your gasoline car for trips. Why not just get a pehv
- barbazoo 3y ago
  Having both, ICE and EV tech under the hood means more technology that can fail. Heavier than either, less EV range, possibly no subsidy in some jurisdictions, things like that.
  - nikau 3y ago
    That's cool in Gartner research theory land, but Prius and hybrid Camrys confirm its nonsense.
    - barbazoo 3y ago
      > That's cool in Gartner research theory land, but Prius and hybrid Camrys confirm its nonsense. The Prius Prime has a range of 72km according to [0] so it's clearly not "nonsense". [0] https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/prius-prime/features-benefits#/al/features-performance https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/prius-prime/feature...
      - nikau 3y ago
        I was referring to the reliability and weight claims. And 72km is still higher than the average US trip distance, and it will kick over to petrol to augment any occasions when you go over that. Its literally the best of both worlds - plug in charging convenience for the bulk of your driving and fast refuelling for the times when you need to do road trips.
noogle 3y ago
That's the thing about cars: their real test (or importance) is not the 90% of the time spent in the "happy path" (short, planned drives after a full night charge). It's to address those edge but critical cases - long trips, unexpected drives, off-the-beaten-path routes. Another thing rarely raised is the correlated nature of traffic issues. Charging is fine now, mostly because it seems there is a huge over-provisioning of chargers compared to EVs on the road. What happens with busy days? An evacuation order sending 1M people on the same route at the same time? For ICEV there is an easy solution. Not for EVs.

matthewdgreen 3y ago

Because EVs are fun to drive.