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we massively under-value land in most cases, which is the reason that activists push for solutions like this. utility scale solar on the ground is economically

we massively under-value land in most cases, which is the reason that activists push for solutions like this. utility scale solar on the ground is economically better, if you're looking at "the numbers". but utility scale solar probably means repurposing farmland, because that's the cheapest land that has enough infrastructure built up around it to make a utility install easy. and repurposing farmland to build solar isn't a clear win in terms of overall societal benefit.

Syonyk 4y ago
> ... but utility scale solar probably means repurposing farmland... Great. Let's start by repurposing the land that grows the corn we turn into ethanol at somewhere around or below unity EROEI, as a political handout to the midwestern states. "Burning a megajoule of diesel, to grow enough corn to make something slightly less than a megajoule of gasoline," is not a winning solution to any problem but "How to best hand money to states that happen to have early Presidential primaries." It's not a bad gig for Iowa (I lived there for a decade), but neither is it a particularly good use of energy, fossil fuels, or money. Let's put solar up there, and work out. Once we've gotten rid of the ethanol debacle, we can see where things are and discuss from that point, but there is a lot of farmland right now that doesn't grow human or animal food, it grows corn that we process rather inefficiently into ethanol.
- notatoad 4y ago
  i completely agree, but as long as this is all driven by economics the existence of those corn subsidies is going to mean the farmland that gets repurposed won't be the farmland that gets the most government subsidies, it'll be the farmland that grows the cheap food that people need to eat. i know ethanol farming is a waste, but it's a lot easier to convert a corn field back into a useful farm field before you've built a solar farm on top of it, rather than afterwards
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > it's a lot easier to convert a corn field back into a useful farm field before you've built a solar farm on top of it, rather than afterwards Or you can do agrovoltaics and have both. There's some evidence that low density agrovoltaic setups increase corn yields.
epistasis 4y ago
Converting farm land into solar, or even fallow land, seems like a massive societal benefit. Most farmland is fantastically unproductive, used for excess corn, soy, or sugar that we struggle to find uses for. Taking even a fraction of the land used for ethanol and using it for solar would give us enough energy to power the US. And the ethanol business is a complete make work program.

Syonyk 4y ago

> ... but utility scale solar probably means repurposing farmland... Great. Let's start by repurposing the land that grows the corn we turn into ethanol at somewhere around or below unity EROEI, as a political handout to the midwestern states. "Burning a megajoule of diesel, to grow enough corn to make something slightly less than a megajoule of gasoline," is not a winning solution to any problem but "How to best hand money to states that happen to have early Presidential primaries." It's not a bad gig for Iowa (I lived there for a decade), but neither is it a particularly good use of energy, fossil fuels, or money. Let's put solar up there, and work out. Once we've gotten rid of the ethanol debacle, we can see where things are and discuss from that point, but there is a lot of farmland right now that doesn't grow human or animal food, it grows corn that we process rather inefficiently into ethanol.

notatoad 4y ago
i completely agree, but as long as this is all driven by economics the existence of those corn subsidies is going to mean the farmland that gets repurposed won't be the farmland that gets the most government subsidies, it'll be the farmland that grows the cheap food that people need to eat. i know ethanol farming is a waste, but it's a lot easier to convert a corn field back into a useful farm field before you've built a solar farm on top of it, rather than afterwards
- shkkmo 4y ago
  > it's a lot easier to convert a corn field back into a useful farm field before you've built a solar farm on top of it, rather than afterwards Or you can do agrovoltaics and have both. There's some evidence that low density agrovoltaic setups increase corn yields.

epistasis 4y ago

Converting farm land into solar, or even fallow land, seems like a massive societal benefit. Most farmland is fantastically unproductive, used for excess corn, soy, or sugar that we struggle to find uses for. Taking even a fraction of the land used for ethanol and using it for solar would give us enough energy to power the US. And the ethanol business is a complete make work program.