4 ms·

disclaimer: this is yours

by 867-5309 4y ago

EGreg 4y ago
Yes. That’s why I am asking
- Kye 4y ago
  It's good form to say you're the person behind the thing you're recommending. Making stuff to solve problems is the point of most of the domain this little website is under, so self-promotion is fine, but not saying that's what it is looks bad.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    Right. But I'm not promoting it. I am definitely NOT recommending it. It isn’t even launched. I was attempting to ask in an unbiased way whether it would help. That would require one person (the one I am asking) to go and check it out. Yes, I omitted saying it's mine, not because of any nefarious reason. Just didn't realize it was necessary to simply ask an opinion of one person about whether it would have the intended effect. And in my opinion it would actually be counterproductive to reveal that I made it.
    - froggit 4y ago
      Nah, no one is saying you're being nefarious. We just don't understand why you aren't proud enough to openly declare that's your work that you're not not promoting.
      - EGreg 4y ago
        It’s not that I am not proud enough. I was simply interested in the opinion of a thoughtful high schooler who is aware of what his friends are doing. I want to help fix society, including teenage education. This is how I do it — using software. I encountered an opportunity to ask an unbiased question and I took it — without biasing it with “Heey, what do you think of MY project that I clearly worked hard on?” That wouldn’t be neutral and thus defeat the purpose of asking the question. Reading into this that I am somehow looking to promote it is wrong. It would be a terrible way to promite, anyway. There can be other reasons for asking a question deep inside a comment thread that hardly anyone sees, than low key trying to draw attention to a project for purposes of promoting it. Besides, it isn’t even launched yet.
    - Kye 4y ago
      That's promotion, though. It would be promotion if you didn't make it. I've been accused of being a shill for enough things I was enthusiastic about to be 100% sure of this. And since you did make it, it's hard to argue you don't benefit in some way from sharing it. That's why disclosure is good form.
      - EGreg 4y ago
        I don’t think asking someone a question about their own specific opinion about whether a particular website could help their peers OR NOT, is the same as promotion. For example, earlier today I promoted a service that I built (see my comment history) and clearly disclosed that it’s mine. In fact, sometimes you don’t WANT the person to know whether what you’re asking about is yours, so they can give a more honest assessment without worrying about hurting your feelings. It should not matter, and for some purposes it shoild be disclosed, whether you made it. As for being accused of shilling… sounds like the crowd accusing you was pretty extreme. The definition of a shill from Wikipedia is indeed nefarious: In most uses, shill refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers, participants or "marks" the impression of an enthusiastic customer independent of the seller, marketer or con artist, for whom they are secretly working. The person or group in league with the shill relies on crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to do business with the seller or accept the ideas they are promoting. Shills may be employed by salespeople and professional marketing campaigns. Plant and stooge more commonly refer to a person who is secretly in league with another person or outside organization while pretending to be neutral or part of the organization in which they are planted, such as a magician's audience, a political party, or an intelligence organization
        Kye 4y ago
        All you're doing here is turning what looked innocent and well-intentioned into something suspicious. I hope you learn to take feedback better before your app is big enough that handling it poorly does real damage.
        EGreg 4y ago
        This is Hacker News. It is reasonable to have substantive discussion and correct mistakes. We are deep in a comment thread hardly anyone will see. So I think it’s OK to explain where I am coming from. It was innocent and well-intentioned. You just misunderstood the intention. If people say there is a systemic problem X in high school, and a high schooler confirms most of their friends have problem X, what do you think is more well-intentioned: 1) Promotion: Hey high school student! I built Y! Check it out! Tell all your friends! I think it might help them! Or… 2) Feedback: Hey high school student, do you THINK this COULD help your friends or not: Y My purpose was 2. I sometimes do 1, but here that was not my intent. When I’m promoting something, you know it. Now that you highlighted that I made it, though, it defeats much of the original intent. So now it has turned into a conversation about whether people can have purposes other than promotion. That’s fine. It is somewhat useful for me to get this straightened out. I won’t get an unbiased answer anymore, but I can get them elsewhere when I do case studies and beta testing. bottom line: doing a clinical trial or experiment or beta testing or asking someone’s opinion isn’t always primarily about promotion.
    - zo1 4y ago
      Be careful what you do on the internet. This thread will forever be connected to this "teaching.app" website, your down-votes, and your tone-def responses to the people trying to explain why they think you should have disclosed that you made the website, and also the name "EGreg"..
      - EGreg 4y ago
        That is a fairly good point, zo1. Sadly I think that, with generative AI and fake bot accounts, it will become very easy to create all kinds of negative associations and destroy reputations. A thread somewhere deep inside Hacker News won’t rank highly for teaching.app when it launches - but in a year from now, far worse things would be going on (primarily because of generative AI making such attacks cheap). My entire comment history has been one of discussing in good faith and standing up for what I believe in. You prefer that I back down and agree to something when I can correct the misunderstanding. That’s your prerogative. I see nothing to be ashamed of. If someone wants to misinterpret what I say or take it out of context, I can’t stop it. Most celebrities cause far worse outrage when they get famous, I am rather careful with my words. I have made a decision for myself long ago that integrity and standing for what you believe in, in good faith, is worth it to me more than attempting to be too political. I could be wrong. We’ll see.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

disclaimer: this is yours

EGreg 4y ago

Yes. That’s why I am asking

Kye 4y ago
It's good form to say you're the person behind the thing you're recommending. Making stuff to solve problems is the point of most of the domain this little website is under, so self-promotion is fine, but not saying that's what it is looks bad.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Right. But I'm not promoting it. I am definitely NOT recommending it. It isn’t even launched. I was attempting to ask in an unbiased way whether it would help. That would require one person (the one I am asking) to go and check it out. Yes, I omitted saying it's mine, not because of any nefarious reason. Just didn't realize it was necessary to simply ask an opinion of one person about whether it would have the intended effect. And in my opinion it would actually be counterproductive to reveal that I made it.
  - froggit 4y ago
    Nah, no one is saying you're being nefarious. We just don't understand why you aren't proud enough to openly declare that's your work that you're not not promoting.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      It’s not that I am not proud enough. I was simply interested in the opinion of a thoughtful high schooler who is aware of what his friends are doing. I want to help fix society, including teenage education. This is how I do it — using software. I encountered an opportunity to ask an unbiased question and I took it — without biasing it with “Heey, what do you think of MY project that I clearly worked hard on?” That wouldn’t be neutral and thus defeat the purpose of asking the question. Reading into this that I am somehow looking to promote it is wrong. It would be a terrible way to promite, anyway. There can be other reasons for asking a question deep inside a comment thread that hardly anyone sees, than low key trying to draw attention to a project for purposes of promoting it. Besides, it isn’t even launched yet.
  - Kye 4y ago
    That's promotion, though. It would be promotion if you didn't make it. I've been accused of being a shill for enough things I was enthusiastic about to be 100% sure of this. And since you did make it, it's hard to argue you don't benefit in some way from sharing it. That's why disclosure is good form.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      I don’t think asking someone a question about their own specific opinion about whether a particular website could help their peers OR NOT, is the same as promotion. For example, earlier today I promoted a service that I built (see my comment history) and clearly disclosed that it’s mine. In fact, sometimes you don’t WANT the person to know whether what you’re asking about is yours, so they can give a more honest assessment without worrying about hurting your feelings. It should not matter, and for some purposes it shoild be disclosed, whether you made it. As for being accused of shilling… sounds like the crowd accusing you was pretty extreme. The definition of a shill from Wikipedia is indeed nefarious: In most uses, shill refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers, participants or "marks" the impression of an enthusiastic customer independent of the seller, marketer or con artist, for whom they are secretly working. The person or group in league with the shill relies on crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to do business with the seller or accept the ideas they are promoting. Shills may be employed by salespeople and professional marketing campaigns. Plant and stooge more commonly refer to a person who is secretly in league with another person or outside organization while pretending to be neutral or part of the organization in which they are planted, such as a magician's audience, a political party, or an intelligence organization
      - Kye 4y ago
        All you're doing here is turning what looked innocent and well-intentioned into something suspicious. I hope you learn to take feedback better before your app is big enough that handling it poorly does real damage.
        EGreg 4y ago
        This is Hacker News. It is reasonable to have substantive discussion and correct mistakes. We are deep in a comment thread hardly anyone will see. So I think it’s OK to explain where I am coming from. It was innocent and well-intentioned. You just misunderstood the intention. If people say there is a systemic problem X in high school, and a high schooler confirms most of their friends have problem X, what do you think is more well-intentioned: 1) Promotion: Hey high school student! I built Y! Check it out! Tell all your friends! I think it might help them! Or… 2) Feedback: Hey high school student, do you THINK this COULD help your friends or not: Y My purpose was 2. I sometimes do 1, but here that was not my intent. When I’m promoting something, you know it. Now that you highlighted that I made it, though, it defeats much of the original intent. So now it has turned into a conversation about whether people can have purposes other than promotion. That’s fine. It is somewhat useful for me to get this straightened out. I won’t get an unbiased answer anymore, but I can get them elsewhere when I do case studies and beta testing. bottom line: doing a clinical trial or experiment or beta testing or asking someone’s opinion isn’t always primarily about promotion.
  - zo1 4y ago
    Be careful what you do on the internet. This thread will forever be connected to this "teaching.app" website, your down-votes, and your tone-def responses to the people trying to explain why they think you should have disclosed that you made the website, and also the name "EGreg"..
    - EGreg 4y ago
      That is a fairly good point, zo1. Sadly I think that, with generative AI and fake bot accounts, it will become very easy to create all kinds of negative associations and destroy reputations. A thread somewhere deep inside Hacker News won’t rank highly for teaching.app when it launches - but in a year from now, far worse things would be going on (primarily because of generative AI making such attacks cheap). My entire comment history has been one of discussing in good faith and standing up for what I believe in. You prefer that I back down and agree to something when I can correct the misunderstanding. That’s your prerogative. I see nothing to be ashamed of. If someone wants to misinterpret what I say or take it out of context, I can’t stop it. Most celebrities cause far worse outrage when they get famous, I am rather careful with my words. I have made a decision for myself long ago that integrity and standing for what you believe in, in good faith, is worth it to me more than attempting to be too political. I could be wrong. We’ll see.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]