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This is why I get so annoyed by people claiming that side loading will make iOS less secure. You trust open source apps on desktop all the time. I'd rather use

This is why I get so annoyed by people claiming that side loading will make iOS less secure. You trust open source apps on desktop all the time. I'd rather use crowdsourced trust indicators than some shmuck working at Apple.

coldtea 4y ago
>You trust open source apps on desktop all the time The desktop has the luxury to afford not being as secure as your phone, which serves as a 2FA device, a digital wallet, something that can record your voice and location, and your main means of everyday communication. Side-loading would just mean every person getting nagged or strong-armed to side-load alls kind of apps (from official stuff from major companies wanting to avoid Apple's pay-cut, to all kinds of shady BS), with average Joes and Janes getting their phone smashed with malware, spyware and such. The app store review doesn't have to be perfect or catch all. It just needs to be better than no review, and it does fare majorly better than Android (e.g. studies showing the latter gets 90% of the mobile malware). The app store process and notarization also means apps can be revoked.
- SCLeo 4y ago
  I really don't get the argument that desktops don't need to be secure. I have my password manager (yes it is encrypted, but can be bypassed by a keylogger) and my ssh private keys on my desktop.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    They should, but that train has left the station. At least phones have more accepted security than the "anything goes" that are desktops.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > The desktop has the luxury to afford not being as secure as your phone I don't understand this argument at all. I have everything on my desktop (laptop). Tax forms, credit card statements, bank statements, financial info, photos of all kinds, emails, ssh keys, etc., going back many many years. > It just needs to be better than no review It's not clear that this is true. I think that the existence of app review makes unwary consumers overconfident about the crapp store, and then they get scammed. That's how these scam apps exist and make money. The App Store is honeypot, a scammer's paradise. It's a lot easier to get yourself highly ranked in App Store search than it is to find people to scam on the open internet. But Apple tells consumers that the App Store is safe, which is a lie. > it does fare majorly better than Android The lesser of two evils is still evil. > The app store process and notarization also means apps can be revoked. Notarization is sideloading.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    >I don't understand this argument at all. I have everything on my desktop (laptop). Tax forms, credit card statements, bank statements, financial info, photos of all kinds, emails, ssh keys, etc., going back many many years. Too bad. You shouldn't. Or maybe you should, but most people shouldn't. Their desktop are horrible security wise, they have no expertise to secure them, and they don't even have backups for losing data. Those people (and many more, who don't even need or have a laptop/PC) still have a mobile phone. >The lesser of two evils is still evil. That would only matter if life wasn't all about tradeoffs towards the lesser evil all the time, and if "perfect" was practical.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > Too bad. You shouldn't. Or maybe you should, but most people shouldn't. Where are you supposed to keep them? iOS devices don't even give you direct access to the file system, and they tend to have a lot less storage space than desktops. Not to mention, it's a lot easier to do actual work on your desktop, with a large screen, keyboard, and mouse/trackpad. What do you think people use Macs for, gaming? ;-) > they don't even have backups for losing data. This is a very weird statement. Desktops have more backup options than a locked down iPhone. Indeed, I backup my iPhone to my Mac. Try backing up your Mac to an iPhone. ;-) And both Mac and iPhone have iCloud, if you want to use that. > Those people (and many more, who don't even need or have a laptop/PC) still have a mobile phone. So?
      - hparadiz 4y ago
        The people who want locked down phones aren't even rational at this point. They aren't more secure. They just want to "feel" like they are more secure even when they aren't. They just wanna be coddled into a false sense of security. It's just constant pointless circular arguments. No amount of reassurance or claims of proof will help them out of the Stockholm syndrome. For example I've never encountered someone personally or professionally that has ever had their android phone hacked. But if you talk to an iPhone fan you'd think that you'd get hacked within 5 minutes. It would be funny if it wasn't actually just sad.
      - 4y ago
AmericanChopper 4y ago
> You trust open source apps on desktop all the time. I trust the software on my laptop far less than the software I install on my phone. I’m much more willing to install AppStore apps from random publishers than I am random software off the internet. There’s nothing on my laptop that didn’t come from a well known, reputable source, and web apps mean I don’t need to install nearly as much software on my laptop in the first place. The fact that the majority of mobile malware targets Android, despite iOS users having much more spending power, seems to be rather compelling evidence that side loading does in fact make the os less secure.
heavyset_go 4y ago
> I'd rather use crowdsourced trust indicators than some shmuck working at Apple. It isn't some shmuck working at Apple who reviews apps for quality and security, but some underpaid contractor on the other side of the planet who quickly needs to apply a checklist to your app before they lose the gig entirely for not meeting their hourly quota.

coldtea 4y ago

>You trust open source apps on desktop all the time The desktop has the luxury to afford not being as secure as your phone, which serves as a 2FA device, a digital wallet, something that can record your voice and location, and your main means of everyday communication. Side-loading would just mean every person getting nagged or strong-armed to side-load alls kind of apps (from official stuff from major companies wanting to avoid Apple's pay-cut, to all kinds of shady BS), with average Joes and Janes getting their phone smashed with malware, spyware and such. The app store review doesn't have to be perfect or catch all. It just needs to be better than no review, and it does fare majorly better than Android (e.g. studies showing the latter gets 90% of the mobile malware). The app store process and notarization also means apps can be revoked.

SCLeo 4y ago
I really don't get the argument that desktops don't need to be secure. I have my password manager (yes it is encrypted, but can be bypassed by a keylogger) and my ssh private keys on my desktop.
- coldtea 4y ago
  They should, but that train has left the station. At least phones have more accepted security than the "anything goes" that are desktops.
lapcat 4y ago
> The desktop has the luxury to afford not being as secure as your phone I don't understand this argument at all. I have everything on my desktop (laptop). Tax forms, credit card statements, bank statements, financial info, photos of all kinds, emails, ssh keys, etc., going back many many years. > It just needs to be better than no review It's not clear that this is true. I think that the existence of app review makes unwary consumers overconfident about the crapp store, and then they get scammed. That's how these scam apps exist and make money. The App Store is honeypot, a scammer's paradise. It's a lot easier to get yourself highly ranked in App Store search than it is to find people to scam on the open internet. But Apple tells consumers that the App Store is safe, which is a lie. > it does fare majorly better than Android The lesser of two evils is still evil. > The app store process and notarization also means apps can be revoked. Notarization is sideloading.
- coldtea 4y ago
  >I don't understand this argument at all. I have everything on my desktop (laptop). Tax forms, credit card statements, bank statements, financial info, photos of all kinds, emails, ssh keys, etc., going back many many years. Too bad. You shouldn't. Or maybe you should, but most people shouldn't. Their desktop are horrible security wise, they have no expertise to secure them, and they don't even have backups for losing data. Those people (and many more, who don't even need or have a laptop/PC) still have a mobile phone. >The lesser of two evils is still evil. That would only matter if life wasn't all about tradeoffs towards the lesser evil all the time, and if "perfect" was practical.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > Too bad. You shouldn't. Or maybe you should, but most people shouldn't. Where are you supposed to keep them? iOS devices don't even give you direct access to the file system, and they tend to have a lot less storage space than desktops. Not to mention, it's a lot easier to do actual work on your desktop, with a large screen, keyboard, and mouse/trackpad. What do you think people use Macs for, gaming? ;-) > they don't even have backups for losing data. This is a very weird statement. Desktops have more backup options than a locked down iPhone. Indeed, I backup my iPhone to my Mac. Try backing up your Mac to an iPhone. ;-) And both Mac and iPhone have iCloud, if you want to use that. > Those people (and many more, who don't even need or have a laptop/PC) still have a mobile phone. So?
    - hparadiz 4y ago
      The people who want locked down phones aren't even rational at this point. They aren't more secure. They just want to "feel" like they are more secure even when they aren't. They just wanna be coddled into a false sense of security. It's just constant pointless circular arguments. No amount of reassurance or claims of proof will help them out of the Stockholm syndrome. For example I've never encountered someone personally or professionally that has ever had their android phone hacked. But if you talk to an iPhone fan you'd think that you'd get hacked within 5 minutes. It would be funny if it wasn't actually just sad.
    - 4y ago

AmericanChopper 4y ago

> You trust open source apps on desktop all the time. I trust the software on my laptop far less than the software I install on my phone. I’m much more willing to install AppStore apps from random publishers than I am random software off the internet. There’s nothing on my laptop that didn’t come from a well known, reputable source, and web apps mean I don’t need to install nearly as much software on my laptop in the first place. The fact that the majority of mobile malware targets Android, despite iOS users having much more spending power, seems to be rather compelling evidence that side loading does in fact make the os less secure.

heavyset_go 4y ago

> I'd rather use crowdsourced trust indicators than some shmuck working at Apple. It isn't some shmuck working at Apple who reviews apps for quality and security, but some underpaid contractor on the other side of the planet who quickly needs to apply a checklist to your app before they lose the gig entirely for not meeting their hourly quota.