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A thing to think about is: Do we in fact need top-down government mandates to do this? People with gas cars have range anxiety, too, and you need to be strategi

A thing to think about is: Do we in fact need top-down government mandates to do this? People with gas cars have range anxiety, too, and you need to be strategic about placement of gas stations to ensure that they don't get stuck in a place where they can't charge. And yet... this turns out to be a problem that largely solved itself without a centralizing authority, because "people want to buy gas/electricity for their car, and they want to buy it more in certain places, and there is money to be made by serving that demand" is where the market does well. Market failures are real, the need for regulation is real (there are, quite sensibly, piles of regulations around how you can store the tanks of toxic chemicals needed to fuel a legacy gas car, and there will be regulations around EV charging as well), but in terms of making sure EV charging places exist where needed, this is probably a place where just "get out of the way, and don't let zoning regulations block necessary construction" gets you 90%+ of the way to where you need to be.

rad_gruchalski 3y ago
> People with gas cars have range anxiety, too, and you need to be strategic about placement of gas stations to ensure that they don't get stuck in a place where they can't charge. Right? But I can’t buy 5x20l canisters and fill them up with x kWh of electricity. I can to that with diesel or gasoline.
- barbazoo 3y ago
  You could get another battery for long trips. And the bobcat to lift it into the car with.
  - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
    Aha, 2770kg for a jcb bobcat and roughly 550kg for a battery pack. Let me guess - on a trailer? What would towing that do to the range on the first battery pack? Or are you being sarcastic?
    - barbazoo 3y ago
      Oh for sure I was being sarcastic.
barbazoo 3y ago
Good point. As it is right now, chargers would probably have to be much closer to each other than gas stations. Until we get denser batteries.
vegetablepotpie 3y ago
You may not need government to mandate EV chargers. You may need government to remove barriers to deploying them, and that will require some nice encouragement and some not-so-nice arm twisting. To install EV charging, unless you’re planning on generating your own energy on site, you’re likely going to procure power from your local utility, most of which are monopolies that are heavily regulated by your state utility commission. Some estimates say it could cost utilities up to $5,380 per EV to upgrade the electrical infrastructure to support them [1]. Although utilities will earn more revenue through selling electricity, this will not completely offset the infrastructure investment. Will the costs be paid by ratepayers, some of whom may not have an EV? Your state utility commission may balk at that. Of course federal incentives exist to offset costs, but many programs require participation by your state executive branch, who may not be in lock step with federal policy. Your state utility commission may not be in lock step with your state administration. If you can get agreement with your state policy makers, your utility will have to be employed to expand grid access. They may expect certain amount of consumption to make it worth their while, which you may not be able to provide for a few years until EVs gain adoption. Some utilities will charge you extra too if you use too much electricity, called demand charges, to disincentive consumption. Utilities will have their own schedule to build out the infrastructure, which may not match yours. They’re also a monopoly, so you can’t exactly shop around. Then you have the code and permitting requirements of the municipality your setting up the infrastructure in. The permitting process also follows their schedule, not yours. With EV charging we have a massive coordination problem, with actors you can’t choose who aren’t strictly driven by market incentives. You’ll need some kind of combination of carrots (tax breaks and grants) and sticks (fines and penalties for slow walking a process) to make the infrastructure needed to support wide EV adoption. [1] https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-grid-for-electric-vehicles https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-g...

rad_gruchalski 3y ago

> People with gas cars have range anxiety, too, and you need to be strategic about placement of gas stations to ensure that they don't get stuck in a place where they can't charge. Right? But I can’t buy 5x20l canisters and fill them up with x kWh of electricity. I can to that with diesel or gasoline.

barbazoo 3y ago
You could get another battery for long trips. And the bobcat to lift it into the car with.
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago
  Aha, 2770kg for a jcb bobcat and roughly 550kg for a battery pack. Let me guess - on a trailer? What would towing that do to the range on the first battery pack? Or are you being sarcastic?
  - barbazoo 3y ago
    Oh for sure I was being sarcastic.

barbazoo 3y ago

Good point. As it is right now, chargers would probably have to be much closer to each other than gas stations. Until we get denser batteries.

vegetablepotpie 3y ago

You may not need government to mandate EV chargers. You may need government to remove barriers to deploying them, and that will require some nice encouragement and some not-so-nice arm twisting. To install EV charging, unless you’re planning on generating your own energy on site, you’re likely going to procure power from your local utility, most of which are monopolies that are heavily regulated by your state utility commission. Some estimates say it could cost utilities up to $5,380 per EV to upgrade the electrical infrastructure to support them [1]. Although utilities will earn more revenue through selling electricity, this will not completely offset the infrastructure investment. Will the costs be paid by ratepayers, some of whom may not have an EV? Your state utility commission may balk at that. Of course federal incentives exist to offset costs, but many programs require participation by your state executive branch, who may not be in lock step with federal policy. Your state utility commission may not be in lock step with your state administration. If you can get agreement with your state policy makers, your utility will have to be employed to expand grid access. They may expect certain amount of consumption to make it worth their while, which you may not be able to provide for a few years until EVs gain adoption. Some utilities will charge you extra too if you use too much electricity, called demand charges, to disincentive consumption. Utilities will have their own schedule to build out the infrastructure, which may not match yours. They’re also a monopoly, so you can’t exactly shop around. Then you have the code and permitting requirements of the municipality your setting up the infrastructure in. The permitting process also follows their schedule, not yours. With EV charging we have a massive coordination problem, with actors you can’t choose who aren’t strictly driven by market incentives. You’ll need some kind of combination of carrots (tax breaks and grants) and sticks (fines and penalties for slow walking a process) to make the infrastructure needed to support wide EV adoption. [1] https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-grid-for-electric-vehicles https://www.bcg.com/publications/2019/costs-revving-up-the-g...