4 ms·

Seems like it got the hug of death. Just based on the headline, I disagree. If you have a genetic propensity for schizophrenia or things like that then yes, av

Seems like it got the hug of death. Just based on the headline, I disagree. If you have a genetic propensity for schizophrenia or things like that then yes, avoid it. But for the vast majority of LSD users it’s a transformative experience. Drinking alcohol is socially accepted but tens of millions of Americans have some sort of diagnosed use disorder with it and almost 100k people died last year to drinking. Do we say “not even once” to alcohol? It’s all about drug education, we need to make sure people aware of the risks and allow them to do what they do. Otherwise we’ll just keep repeating this war on drugs nonsense.

silisili 3y ago
I feel like this kind of whataboutism misses the mark. To be clear - I'm in no way advocating for alcohol, or against its damages to society. But one like the article is about doing something safely, once, in your own place. Dangers of alcohol are generally overdose, long term abuse, and accidents. How many people drink one beer in the safety of their home with trusted people, and have their life turned upside down?
- willio58 3y ago
  I get where you’re coming from but I’m comparing two drugs here, LSD and Alcohol. One of those communities is underground, mixed use with harder drugs, associated in large part with people who are “less than” in society. There’s no way to get well tested, accurately dosed LSD without performing those tests yourself. The other community has companies controlling everything, ads playing to all ages permanently, they have full control over their branding and marketing, etc. They also lobby the federal government to keep doing what they do. If LSD was as legal as alcohol, and as successfully marketed, I think at that point we could draw conclusions as to which drug is more of a detriment to society and peoples’ health.
  - Shocka1 3y ago
    If the same amount of people had access to LSD by simply going to the gas station or local grocery, that is one very big if lol. I get the vibe you are pro-drugs, which isn't a terrible thing IMO, but this thought experiment is somewhat ridiculous on the sole fact that we have an increasingly sick society. The mental health statistics in this nation should give giant red flags. In a vacuum your experiment just might work, but probably not in 2023 American society. There is a lot more non-biased scientific study that needs done before unleashing these powerful substances on the population. I would suggest removing bias and looking at it in a neutral way, as I'm sure a happy medium can be established here.
    - willio58 3y ago
      I totally agree about the reality of mental health issues in the US. And I definitely agree we need more studies on LSD and its effects. It's very unfortunate that LSD is schedule 1, meaning that research is exceedingly difficult to do on large scales, which essentially means that debates like this are only really supported by anecdotes and fear on both sides. I'd like to say I'm not pro-drugs. I'm just pro-science and anti-war on drugs, which I'll assume you are too. If there was a scientific consensus on how often normal doses of LSD caused things like visual snow or, more severely, the onset of schizophrenia or similar disorders I think the world would be a better place. If LSD indeed caused more harm to the world than existing popular drugs like alcohol, then I think anyone who trusts science including myself would say "Okay, let's stop doing them". But until then, it's just hearsay anecdotal evidence that gets us nowhere. If it does get us somewhere, it's been historically in the direction of demonizing those who do drugs which I think has had a negative effect on society as a whole.
lsdont 3y ago
> If you have a genetic propensity for schizophrenia How would you know until something triggers it? Getting permanently mindfucked from LSD is an awful way to discover this.
- mr_woozy 3y ago
  [dead]
- willio58 3y ago
  I feel like people generally know if they have a family history of these things, or maybe that’s just me?
  - jamilton 3y ago
    It's certainly not a given that someone would know.
  - lsdont 3y ago
    Maybe, maybe not. There can be a lot of surprises in one's family history. And it's all surprises if you're adopted.
    - hezralig 3y ago
      Okay, but most people are not adopted.
- hezralig 3y ago
  Schizophrenia is a genetic disorder, so if you parents or grandparents have a history of it, then that would indicate a genetic propensity for it. I am sure there are also relevant SNPs you could look for if you have your genome decoded.

silisili 3y ago

I feel like this kind of whataboutism misses the mark. To be clear - I'm in no way advocating for alcohol, or against its damages to society. But one like the article is about doing something safely, once, in your own place. Dangers of alcohol are generally overdose, long term abuse, and accidents. How many people drink one beer in the safety of their home with trusted people, and have their life turned upside down?

willio58 3y ago
I get where you’re coming from but I’m comparing two drugs here, LSD and Alcohol. One of those communities is underground, mixed use with harder drugs, associated in large part with people who are “less than” in society. There’s no way to get well tested, accurately dosed LSD without performing those tests yourself. The other community has companies controlling everything, ads playing to all ages permanently, they have full control over their branding and marketing, etc. They also lobby the federal government to keep doing what they do. If LSD was as legal as alcohol, and as successfully marketed, I think at that point we could draw conclusions as to which drug is more of a detriment to society and peoples’ health.
- Shocka1 3y ago
  If the same amount of people had access to LSD by simply going to the gas station or local grocery, that is one very big if lol. I get the vibe you are pro-drugs, which isn't a terrible thing IMO, but this thought experiment is somewhat ridiculous on the sole fact that we have an increasingly sick society. The mental health statistics in this nation should give giant red flags. In a vacuum your experiment just might work, but probably not in 2023 American society. There is a lot more non-biased scientific study that needs done before unleashing these powerful substances on the population. I would suggest removing bias and looking at it in a neutral way, as I'm sure a happy medium can be established here.
  - willio58 3y ago
    I totally agree about the reality of mental health issues in the US. And I definitely agree we need more studies on LSD and its effects. It's very unfortunate that LSD is schedule 1, meaning that research is exceedingly difficult to do on large scales, which essentially means that debates like this are only really supported by anecdotes and fear on both sides. I'd like to say I'm not pro-drugs. I'm just pro-science and anti-war on drugs, which I'll assume you are too. If there was a scientific consensus on how often normal doses of LSD caused things like visual snow or, more severely, the onset of schizophrenia or similar disorders I think the world would be a better place. If LSD indeed caused more harm to the world than existing popular drugs like alcohol, then I think anyone who trusts science including myself would say "Okay, let's stop doing them". But until then, it's just hearsay anecdotal evidence that gets us nowhere. If it does get us somewhere, it's been historically in the direction of demonizing those who do drugs which I think has had a negative effect on society as a whole.

lsdont 3y ago

> If you have a genetic propensity for schizophrenia How would you know until something triggers it? Getting permanently mindfucked from LSD is an awful way to discover this.

mr_woozy 3y ago
[dead]
willio58 3y ago
I feel like people generally know if they have a family history of these things, or maybe that’s just me?
- jamilton 3y ago
  It's certainly not a given that someone would know.
- lsdont 3y ago
  Maybe, maybe not. There can be a lot of surprises in one's family history. And it's all surprises if you're adopted.
  - hezralig 3y ago
    Okay, but most people are not adopted.
hezralig 3y ago
Schizophrenia is a genetic disorder, so if you parents or grandparents have a history of it, then that would indicate a genetic propensity for it. I am sure there are also relevant SNPs you could look for if you have your genome decoded.