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> Every statement you've made, every single thing you've just written, is provably false. No, they're not. > Most vegans will need an actual B12 supplement.

by least 3y ago

> Every statement you've made, every single thing you've just written, is provably false. No, they're not. > Most vegans will need an actual B12 supplement. It obviously depends on how much of any given fortified B12 food you consume. Hypothetically yes, you could eat enough fortified foods to avoid the need for a pill, but it'd take a lot more intentional eating on the vegan's part. Most vegans should take a B12 supplement because it ensures that they're getting enough B12, while fortified foods have varied amounts of it. https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12 https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/... > This is true, except that people don't eat algae, so it's an additional supplement you need to take. I take this back, people do eat nori which is algae. It just doesn't contain vitamin d. Vegan would take a supplement, since vitamin D is not prevalent inside of plants. Another option might be UV-exposed mushrooms, but generally you either need fortified foods or a supplement. Vegan vitamin d supplements are produced from the algae you mentioned. > All of which have low bioavailability which is why so many vegans have iron anemia. In fact eating mostly fibrous plants and seeds likely inhibits iron uptake. Plant sources of iron do not contain heme iron, they contain non-heme iron, which is less bioavailable. 25% of heme iron and 17% of nonheme iron get absorbed, which seems insignificant until you realize exactly what that translates to in terms of how much material you need to consume to reach that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK540969/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK540969/ And on the bioavailability of iron: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916522033652?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000291652... On nori: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319322455_The_Taurine_Content_of_Japanese_Seaweed https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319322455_The_Tauri... The only source of 1300 mg claim that i saw was webmd... which is what you copied that sentence from. > The phytates and oxalates in those inhibits calcium's bioavailability in these foods. You get it from supplements, once again. Phytates play a larger role than oxalates. It's the same issue as with iron. Phytates bind with calcium which can prevent uptake. Stop making impassioned statements trying to push an agenda you're unwilling to defend. My argument is defensible. It's quite possible I'm wrong about some of it, but it's certainly not driven by dogma.

Maursault 3y ago
What you're missing is vegans have made a big decision and take their diet seriously. The fact of the matter is most vegans do not have a B12 deficiency, nor any of the other unsupported criticisms you've made. I honestly don't know how they can be so disciplined, and my only criticism of them is their often saying "it's easy," because I personally find it impossible to get away from animal product. There have been a lot of studies and surveys, and vegans do it, they avoid meat and animal product, and they're not all anemic and suffering from low BMD, in fact most are perfectly healthy because, again, they're serious about diet and nutrition, and disciplined, and they know what to eat. I guarantee you that most if not all vegans are a good sight healthier than you or I. The evidence is available on the web if you would just search and cease trying to confirm your biases. You're just trying to justify your lifestyle. Don't bother, because no one cares.
- least 3y ago
  > The fact of the matter is most vegans do not have a B12 deficiency I didn't say they did. I did say they in all likelihood need to supplement their B12. This is well supported by vegans and nutritionists. > nor any of the other unsupported criticisms you've made. I have supported my claims, actually. The fact that you disagree with the science is your problem, not mine. > The evidence is available on the web if you would just search and cease trying to confirm your biases. Your absolute lack of intellectual curiosity indicates that the one that would benefit from these words is yourself. You haven't actually discredited anything I've said even though this is all pretty well studied stuff. It's also important information for people that you seem to admire so much, to ensure that they are getting the right nutrition. Your argument is basically "I know vegans and they don't have any issues resulting from their diet." It's not an argument and it does a disservice to vegans to talk about it with such dishonesty. > You're just trying to justify your lifestyle. Don't bother, because no one cares. No, I'm making a case for meat, which you seem to have a really toxic relationship with on top of you being incredibly ignorant to the actual data. You seem to be making the wrong assumption that I'm trying to dissuade people from becoming vegan. That's not what I'm doing. I am making an argument that meat is an excellent source of nutrition that has extremely high utility so the increased energy required to produce it is worthwhile.

by least 3y ago

Maursault 3y ago

What you're missing is vegans have made a big decision and take their diet seriously. The fact of the matter is most vegans do not have a B12 deficiency, nor any of the other unsupported criticisms you've made. I honestly don't know how they can be so disciplined, and my only criticism of them is their often saying "it's easy," because I personally find it impossible to get away from animal product. There have been a lot of studies and surveys, and vegans do it, they avoid meat and animal product, and they're not all anemic and suffering from low BMD, in fact most are perfectly healthy because, again, they're serious about diet and nutrition, and disciplined, and they know what to eat. I guarantee you that most if not all vegans are a good sight healthier than you or I. The evidence is available on the web if you would just search and cease trying to confirm your biases. You're just trying to justify your lifestyle. Don't bother, because no one cares.

least 3y ago
> The fact of the matter is most vegans do not have a B12 deficiency I didn't say they did. I did say they in all likelihood need to supplement their B12. This is well supported by vegans and nutritionists. > nor any of the other unsupported criticisms you've made. I have supported my claims, actually. The fact that you disagree with the science is your problem, not mine. > The evidence is available on the web if you would just search and cease trying to confirm your biases. Your absolute lack of intellectual curiosity indicates that the one that would benefit from these words is yourself. You haven't actually discredited anything I've said even though this is all pretty well studied stuff. It's also important information for people that you seem to admire so much, to ensure that they are getting the right nutrition. Your argument is basically "I know vegans and they don't have any issues resulting from their diet." It's not an argument and it does a disservice to vegans to talk about it with such dishonesty. > You're just trying to justify your lifestyle. Don't bother, because no one cares. No, I'm making a case for meat, which you seem to have a really toxic relationship with on top of you being incredibly ignorant to the actual data. You seem to be making the wrong assumption that I'm trying to dissuade people from becoming vegan. That's not what I'm doing. I am making an argument that meat is an excellent source of nutrition that has extremely high utility so the increased energy required to produce it is worthwhile.