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I recently went on a trip where the power was out at our destination for over 24 hours due to a storm. The nearest town was ~20 minutes away and likely did not

I recently went on a trip where the power was out at our destination for over 24 hours due to a storm. The nearest town was ~20 minutes away and likely did not have any fast charging infrastructure. Even if it did, it's a pretty bad spot to be in, especially if you have young kids. I have been considering getting an electric car but that trip made me realize I'd have to reserve the EV for urban travel only. Otherwise I'd be uncomfortable with the risk. Even with my gas guzzling SUV I can always bring more gas just in case. I spoke to someone who has an EV and brings a generator with them on long trips so they can charge their car. This seems so wildly impractical to me. I really look forward to the day EVs exceed the range and energy capacity of combustion vehicles -- without having to stuff batteries in the headrest. But it's just not there today.

baremetal 4y ago
Just tow a diesel generator behind you.
aksss 4y ago
I don’t know that it’s wildly impractical. Some people carry battery-powered emergency jump starters for their ICE car. This just seems like the reciprocal backup power solution. Carrying a generator seems very practical to me if you are putting yourself in situations where it could be not just useful but the difference between you being stranded vs self-sufficient. Nobody said that owning an electric vehicle requires a head-in-the-sand refusal to acknowledge the benefit of liquid fuel. Plus, a generator has all kinds of other benefits in the situation you describe.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  How are you going to carry a generator in a typical sedan or crossover? In the trunk, next to your luggage? Now your clothes smell like fuel. On the roof? Now your range took a 15% hit. On a trailer? Range hit, plus you have to store the trailer at home. As a one-off thing, like driving into a town after a storm, might work. But it’s not a solution to range anxiety generally.
  - aksss 4y ago
    Re: size - you can buy 2kW generators that are scarcely bigger than a regulation piece of carry-on luggage, so yeah, store it in the trunk. Worried about the smell of fuel from the empty generator you never use? If so, wrap it up in garbage bags. Remember - it's there for emergencies. Odds are good you'll rarely ever use it. And don't transport it with fuel - get the fuel when you can't find a charger but can find a gas station. Let's be sensible about it. The comment is in reply to someone describing their experience driving to a town that was without power for 24 hours due to a storm. This "road tripping into the unknown" is where taking a generator is applicable, not general range anxiety.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      A 2kW generator will get you like 6ish miles per hour running. A gallon of gas will get you less than three hours of running, so probably less than 18 miles or so.
- cronix 4y ago
  Maybe conceptually they're kind of the same, but not practically. Something that fits in your hand is different than something that fits in your trunk.
  - aksss 4y ago
    Yes, they are conceptually the same - backup power source to get you out of a situation that would otherwise leave you stranded. Practically? Generators come in pretty small packages these days. They'll fit on the floorboard of your back seat (or in the back seat), or easily in the trunk just like another piece of luggage. I mean all of this assumes a particular context - the steps you take to be prepared for risks that are medium probability and high impact are not the same steps necessary when, on a daily basis, those same risks drop to a very low probability and low to medium impact. If it's the choice between being the guy who, after miles on the road, arrives in a storm-stricken town as GP related with his EV near dead and the townsfolk gathering around to point and laugh at a stereotype of luxurious thinking, or being someone with an inefficient yet practical solution to the lack of chargers, I'd take the latter.
- jjav 4y ago
  > Carrying a generator seems very practical to me if you are putting yourself in situations where it could be not just useful but the difference between you being stranded vs self-sufficient. Charging an EV from a portable generator is going to take 8-12+ hours. So now you need to carry enough extra fuel for the generator to run that long.
avalys 4y ago
If the power is out at your destination you're unlikely to be able to operate the gas pumps either. Who brings emergency gasoline supplies with them on a family trip with young kids? The suggestion is ludicrous. Is your typical vacation, like, traveling to Florida to experience a hurricane making landfall? If you do a lot of travel to remote locations and camping and hiking and things like that, yes, an EV will probably be a stretch for that use right now. But most people in the US live and travel between major population centers. Even if you are into the remote/outdoorsy stuff, an EV is a perfectly viable second car.
- Marsymars 4y ago
  > Even if you are into the remote/outdoorsy stuff, an EV is a perfectly viable second car. This has been my conclusion - the main problem at that point being the sheer cost. My household’s current secondary car is one that cost $10k a decade ago. (Two years old at the time of purchase.) There’s no EV that’s even in the same ballpark for cost-per-km or cost-per-year. (And for a second city-only car, they almost all come with far more battery capacity than is required, adding weight and expense. The Mazda MX-30 EV is probably closest from a technical standpoint with 160 km of range, but still has a cost problem, starting at $40k locally after taxes and credits.)
  - mwint 4y ago
    A Used Nissan Leaf with ~70-80mi range can be had in the US in the $6-10k range. My family has two, they're amazing for everything within a ~30mi radius (which, it turns out, is 98%+ of driving we do)
    - Marsymars 4y ago
      Taking a look at online listings for used cars in my province, the cheapest Leafs are in the $14k range for models that are about as old as my existing secondary car. I'd crunch the numbers more seriously if I had to replace my secondary car today. For some napkin math, assuming I only charge at home and my cost of electricity doesn't go up for the next decade, I'd be looking at about $3500 in electricity costs for 10k km/year for the next decade. Say the $14k car depreciates to $4k over the decade, that's $10k in depreciation. To match my existing car costs that leaves me with an average of $1720 to spend per year on maintenance (which, in my spreadsheet, includes tire changes/replacements, yearly detailing, any other misc parts) on a car that will be close to 20 years old with 200k km by the end of the decade. Might be workable? My current ICE car has run about $800/yr in maintenance after subtracting oil/engine-related costs in years 2-12 of its life. Leaf also seems higher risk - with my current low-value car, there isn't much potential for catastrophic failure (like a battery failure would be), and if there were a catastrophic failure, I'm just out the cost of the car, which isn't much.
SoftTalker 4y ago
If the power is out the gas pumps aren't working either, though it's possible some fuel stations have standby generators. I have never taken extra gas along on a trip in the USA (I don't do long offroad treks or safaris, and neither do 99% of drivers). The range and charging time issue with EVs are issues regardless of weird one-off events like the power being out for a day.
- jjav 4y ago
  > If the power is out the gas pumps aren't working either, though it's possible some fuel stations have standby generators. Gas stations tend to have generators, yes. > I have never taken extra gas along on a trip in the USA Well, to counter your anectode, I have never taken a road trip more than 300 miles in the USA without carrying a jerry can (or more) of fuel, just in case. It's cheap and easy insurance, why wouldn't you? Even if you don't need it you can use it later, so it costs nothing.

baremetal 4y ago

Just tow a diesel generator behind you.

aksss 4y ago

I don’t know that it’s wildly impractical. Some people carry battery-powered emergency jump starters for their ICE car. This just seems like the reciprocal backup power solution. Carrying a generator seems very practical to me if you are putting yourself in situations where it could be not just useful but the difference between you being stranded vs self-sufficient. Nobody said that owning an electric vehicle requires a head-in-the-sand refusal to acknowledge the benefit of liquid fuel. Plus, a generator has all kinds of other benefits in the situation you describe.

alistairSH 4y ago
How are you going to carry a generator in a typical sedan or crossover? In the trunk, next to your luggage? Now your clothes smell like fuel. On the roof? Now your range took a 15% hit. On a trailer? Range hit, plus you have to store the trailer at home. As a one-off thing, like driving into a town after a storm, might work. But it’s not a solution to range anxiety generally.
- aksss 4y ago
  Re: size - you can buy 2kW generators that are scarcely bigger than a regulation piece of carry-on luggage, so yeah, store it in the trunk. Worried about the smell of fuel from the empty generator you never use? If so, wrap it up in garbage bags. Remember - it's there for emergencies. Odds are good you'll rarely ever use it. And don't transport it with fuel - get the fuel when you can't find a charger but can find a gas station. Let's be sensible about it. The comment is in reply to someone describing their experience driving to a town that was without power for 24 hours due to a storm. This "road tripping into the unknown" is where taking a generator is applicable, not general range anxiety.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    A 2kW generator will get you like 6ish miles per hour running. A gallon of gas will get you less than three hours of running, so probably less than 18 miles or so.
cronix 4y ago
Maybe conceptually they're kind of the same, but not practically. Something that fits in your hand is different than something that fits in your trunk.
- aksss 4y ago
  Yes, they are conceptually the same - backup power source to get you out of a situation that would otherwise leave you stranded. Practically? Generators come in pretty small packages these days. They'll fit on the floorboard of your back seat (or in the back seat), or easily in the trunk just like another piece of luggage. I mean all of this assumes a particular context - the steps you take to be prepared for risks that are medium probability and high impact are not the same steps necessary when, on a daily basis, those same risks drop to a very low probability and low to medium impact. If it's the choice between being the guy who, after miles on the road, arrives in a storm-stricken town as GP related with his EV near dead and the townsfolk gathering around to point and laugh at a stereotype of luxurious thinking, or being someone with an inefficient yet practical solution to the lack of chargers, I'd take the latter.
jjav 4y ago
> Carrying a generator seems very practical to me if you are putting yourself in situations where it could be not just useful but the difference between you being stranded vs self-sufficient. Charging an EV from a portable generator is going to take 8-12+ hours. So now you need to carry enough extra fuel for the generator to run that long.

avalys 4y ago

If the power is out at your destination you're unlikely to be able to operate the gas pumps either. Who brings emergency gasoline supplies with them on a family trip with young kids? The suggestion is ludicrous. Is your typical vacation, like, traveling to Florida to experience a hurricane making landfall? If you do a lot of travel to remote locations and camping and hiking and things like that, yes, an EV will probably be a stretch for that use right now. But most people in the US live and travel between major population centers. Even if you are into the remote/outdoorsy stuff, an EV is a perfectly viable second car.

Marsymars 4y ago
> Even if you are into the remote/outdoorsy stuff, an EV is a perfectly viable second car. This has been my conclusion - the main problem at that point being the sheer cost. My household’s current secondary car is one that cost $10k a decade ago. (Two years old at the time of purchase.) There’s no EV that’s even in the same ballpark for cost-per-km or cost-per-year. (And for a second city-only car, they almost all come with far more battery capacity than is required, adding weight and expense. The Mazda MX-30 EV is probably closest from a technical standpoint with 160 km of range, but still has a cost problem, starting at $40k locally after taxes and credits.)
- mwint 4y ago
  A Used Nissan Leaf with ~70-80mi range can be had in the US in the $6-10k range. My family has two, they're amazing for everything within a ~30mi radius (which, it turns out, is 98%+ of driving we do)
  - Marsymars 4y ago
    Taking a look at online listings for used cars in my province, the cheapest Leafs are in the $14k range for models that are about as old as my existing secondary car. I'd crunch the numbers more seriously if I had to replace my secondary car today. For some napkin math, assuming I only charge at home and my cost of electricity doesn't go up for the next decade, I'd be looking at about $3500 in electricity costs for 10k km/year for the next decade. Say the $14k car depreciates to $4k over the decade, that's $10k in depreciation. To match my existing car costs that leaves me with an average of $1720 to spend per year on maintenance (which, in my spreadsheet, includes tire changes/replacements, yearly detailing, any other misc parts) on a car that will be close to 20 years old with 200k km by the end of the decade. Might be workable? My current ICE car has run about $800/yr in maintenance after subtracting oil/engine-related costs in years 2-12 of its life. Leaf also seems higher risk - with my current low-value car, there isn't much potential for catastrophic failure (like a battery failure would be), and if there were a catastrophic failure, I'm just out the cost of the car, which isn't much.

SoftTalker 4y ago

If the power is out the gas pumps aren't working either, though it's possible some fuel stations have standby generators. I have never taken extra gas along on a trip in the USA (I don't do long offroad treks or safaris, and neither do 99% of drivers). The range and charging time issue with EVs are issues regardless of weird one-off events like the power being out for a day.

jjav 4y ago
> If the power is out the gas pumps aren't working either, though it's possible some fuel stations have standby generators. Gas stations tend to have generators, yes. > I have never taken extra gas along on a trip in the USA Well, to counter your anectode, I have never taken a road trip more than 300 miles in the USA without carrying a jerry can (or more) of fuel, just in case. It's cheap and easy insurance, why wouldn't you? Even if you don't need it you can use it later, so it costs nothing.