4 ms·

What has the US banned besides Huawei? It's tit for tat anyway, China has banned order of magnitude more US products.

by colordrops 4y ago

MichaelZuo 4y ago
Can you link to a source of the banned hardware products?
- Fatnino 4y ago
  The US doesn't make hardware. It makes software and China has banned plenty of it. Basically every big name software maker in the US has faced or is under a Chinese ban by now.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    That's not new though? There's been restrictions on software products since the 1990s and probably even earlier. Such as the ban on export of cryptography software. What was attention grabbing in the last few years with Huawei was that physical tangible consumer products you could hold in your hands were banned.
    - Fatnino 4y ago
      You are mixing several unrelated concepts. The cryptography export restriction was a US initiative with obvious reasons. The software bans I am talking about are from the Chinese side. For example China's bans on sites like google. What Chinese consumer hardware manufacturers did recently (or rather, finally got noticed doing recently) is making their devices into spying toeholds in other countries. Even if nothing of interest to the Chinese takes place on your 17 year old daughter's phone, it's still on your home LAN exposed to the potential large attack surface area of Mom's work devices. Or even worse, imagine a Chinese government ear permanently installed in the middle of our 5g infrastructure. The ideology of the US government does not align with that of the Chinese government. Hasn't for a very long time. The only surprising thing about this whole situation is how long the US went along with Chinese shenanigans. I would have slammed the door on China over 20 years ago.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        That is my point? Governments restricting software, features, etc., whether for export or import, has been the norm for decades. Restricting hardware technology devices is a much newer phenomena. Perhaps the closest tech analogues with a longer history would be how CNC milling machines are controlled, which has been the case since the 90s too.
        Fatnino 4y ago
        Hardware is just a thing for software to run on. These aren't computers where you can just run your own stuff (hopefully). These are phones with embedded firmware and an OS that almost no consumer will change. We can call it hardware but it's clearly a software delivery vector instead.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        > These are phones with embedded firmware and an OS that almost no consumer will change. We can call it hardware but it's clearly a software delivery vector instead. This also applies to modern CNC milling machines. But I don't think anyone would consider them as such.
- tomohelix 4y ago
  Well, first, Cisco router, then TPM chips, then most of foreign hardware in government offices. I won't even mention Raytheon and Lockheed stuff. Also, you are making a bad faith argument. The topic was in "product". You specifically tried to gate it to "hardware". China is the producer of most hardware in the world. They aren't going to ban stuff that was made by them. Software product on the other hand, aren't really their forte until recently and that they banned plenty.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    In the context of Huawei or Xiaomi it can only mean hardware products, since neither sold any stand-alone software product to consumers in the U.S. At least not any that I'm aware of?
    - tomohelix 4y ago
      >It's tit for tat anyway, China has banned order of magnitude more US products. The context in this specific part is about the retaliations between countries. It has expanded beyond just one company when you start talking about entire economies fighting each other. Besides, I already gave you the US hardware that China banned.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        > Cisco routers As far as I can tell news reports suggest their not invited to bid on government and SoE contracts, but their China revenue is far from zero so they obviously have not been banned from consumer or regular business sales. Considering that cisco.cn works, is publicily accessible, recently updated, and lists some products, this 'ban' seems impossible to believe: https://www.cisco.com/site/cn/zh/index.html https://www.cisco.com/site/cn/zh/index.html Where did you source this information?
  - bllguo 4y ago
    a question as innocuous as this is a "bad faith argument"? We are in a thread about Xiaomi _hardware_, but nefarious intentions are more probable to you than someone just having the original subject in mind?

What has the US banned besides Huawei? It's tit for tat anyway, China has banned order of magnitude more US products.

MichaelZuo 4y ago

Can you link to a source of the banned hardware products?

Fatnino 4y ago
The US doesn't make hardware. It makes software and China has banned plenty of it. Basically every big name software maker in the US has faced or is under a Chinese ban by now.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  That's not new though? There's been restrictions on software products since the 1990s and probably even earlier. Such as the ban on export of cryptography software. What was attention grabbing in the last few years with Huawei was that physical tangible consumer products you could hold in your hands were banned.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    You are mixing several unrelated concepts. The cryptography export restriction was a US initiative with obvious reasons. The software bans I am talking about are from the Chinese side. For example China's bans on sites like google. What Chinese consumer hardware manufacturers did recently (or rather, finally got noticed doing recently) is making their devices into spying toeholds in other countries. Even if nothing of interest to the Chinese takes place on your 17 year old daughter's phone, it's still on your home LAN exposed to the potential large attack surface area of Mom's work devices. Or even worse, imagine a Chinese government ear permanently installed in the middle of our 5g infrastructure. The ideology of the US government does not align with that of the Chinese government. Hasn't for a very long time. The only surprising thing about this whole situation is how long the US went along with Chinese shenanigans. I would have slammed the door on China over 20 years ago.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      That is my point? Governments restricting software, features, etc., whether for export or import, has been the norm for decades. Restricting hardware technology devices is a much newer phenomena. Perhaps the closest tech analogues with a longer history would be how CNC milling machines are controlled, which has been the case since the 90s too.
      - Fatnino 4y ago
        Hardware is just a thing for software to run on. These aren't computers where you can just run your own stuff (hopefully). These are phones with embedded firmware and an OS that almost no consumer will change. We can call it hardware but it's clearly a software delivery vector instead.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        > These are phones with embedded firmware and an OS that almost no consumer will change. We can call it hardware but it's clearly a software delivery vector instead. This also applies to modern CNC milling machines. But I don't think anyone would consider them as such.
tomohelix 4y ago
Well, first, Cisco router, then TPM chips, then most of foreign hardware in government offices. I won't even mention Raytheon and Lockheed stuff. Also, you are making a bad faith argument. The topic was in "product". You specifically tried to gate it to "hardware". China is the producer of most hardware in the world. They aren't going to ban stuff that was made by them. Software product on the other hand, aren't really their forte until recently and that they banned plenty.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  In the context of Huawei or Xiaomi it can only mean hardware products, since neither sold any stand-alone software product to consumers in the U.S. At least not any that I'm aware of?
  - tomohelix 4y ago
    >It's tit for tat anyway, China has banned order of magnitude more US products. The context in this specific part is about the retaliations between countries. It has expanded beyond just one company when you start talking about entire economies fighting each other. Besides, I already gave you the US hardware that China banned.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      > Cisco routers As far as I can tell news reports suggest their not invited to bid on government and SoE contracts, but their China revenue is far from zero so they obviously have not been banned from consumer or regular business sales. Considering that cisco.cn works, is publicily accessible, recently updated, and lists some products, this 'ban' seems impossible to believe: https://www.cisco.com/site/cn/zh/index.html https://www.cisco.com/site/cn/zh/index.html Where did you source this information?
- bllguo 4y ago
  a question as innocuous as this is a "bad faith argument"? We are in a thread about Xiaomi _hardware_, but nefarious intentions are more probable to you than someone just having the original subject in mind?