4 ms·

Sure, you first, open up your skull for brain biopsy. Lab animals are kept in regulated conditions (illegal/unethical behavior under the radar aside), experime

by kortex 3y ago

Sure, you first, open up your skull for brain biopsy. Lab animals are kept in regulated conditions (illegal/unethical behavior under the radar aside), experiments are vetted by institutional review boards, and they live pretty decent lives. There is mandatory sensory stimulation, handling, and socialization. If you want to get rid of animal models, kiss basically every medical intervention goodbye (drugs, prosthetics, procedures, surgery).

dmbche 3y ago
Eh - I don't think that the mice force fed plastic has a pretty decent life, does it? While all the things you write are claims, I doubt you will be very convinced of them if you do any research on the subject. All undercover investigation in labs showed blatant mistreatment in every single case, which I am comfortable with generalising to most other labs, unless proven otherwise. As for having my brain biopsied - I'm not the one arguing that we have microplastics in the brain. The scientists had this hypothesis, and killed some mice to prove it. I'm saying that they shouldn'y have been allowed to, since the result does not further anything about plastics in human brains, and other options seemed both to provide better human data and be more ethical.
- quonn 3y ago
  It‘s not more ethical to do research on humans, unless you can be sure these humans do not participate in experiments due to their economic situation. Anecdotal example: I have met a british guy who makes a living from participating in medical trials. He makes about 10-20k per year if I remember correctly.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    I think I'm comfortable arguing that it is much more ethical to do voluntary human testing, as humans will always have more options than animals in cages - unless we are talking something like human trafficking, but I don't think that's what you are bringing up. As for your example, I too knew someone living a pretty terrible life doing trials for a living, that died sadly. While I understand your point, I'm sure you can think of many avenues for this person to make a living without doing trials - i.e. stocking shelves, working a warehouse, janitorial work, service, etc. If they are under precarious circumstences, there are many options still.

by kortex 3y ago

dmbche 3y ago

Eh - I don't think that the mice force fed plastic has a pretty decent life, does it? While all the things you write are claims, I doubt you will be very convinced of them if you do any research on the subject. All undercover investigation in labs showed blatant mistreatment in every single case, which I am comfortable with generalising to most other labs, unless proven otherwise. As for having my brain biopsied - I'm not the one arguing that we have microplastics in the brain. The scientists had this hypothesis, and killed some mice to prove it. I'm saying that they shouldn'y have been allowed to, since the result does not further anything about plastics in human brains, and other options seemed both to provide better human data and be more ethical.

quonn 3y ago
It‘s not more ethical to do research on humans, unless you can be sure these humans do not participate in experiments due to their economic situation. Anecdotal example: I have met a british guy who makes a living from participating in medical trials. He makes about 10-20k per year if I remember correctly.
- dmbche 3y ago
  I think I'm comfortable arguing that it is much more ethical to do voluntary human testing, as humans will always have more options than animals in cages - unless we are talking something like human trafficking, but I don't think that's what you are bringing up. As for your example, I too knew someone living a pretty terrible life doing trials for a living, that died sadly. While I understand your point, I'm sure you can think of many avenues for this person to make a living without doing trials - i.e. stocking shelves, working a warehouse, janitorial work, service, etc. If they are under precarious circumstences, there are many options still.