5 ms·

Russia and US were political enemies. > Russians were considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy. Russia and US stopped being political enemies. > I

Russia and US were political enemies. > Russians were considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy. Russia and US stopped being political enemies. > I started to see amazing creativity come from Russia. Russia and US started being political enemies again. > Russians are considered brutish, non-creative, and untrustworthy. It's not really clear but I think I'm starting to see a pattern here.

scrollaway 4y ago
Correlation is not causation. Russia’s political decisions have a great influence on both geopolitics AND the decisions of individual Russians on whether they stay in the country.
gumballindie 4y ago
Yeah one of the two is constantly brutalising its neighbours, while the other is busy building tech and defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries. Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along.
- biorach 4y ago
  >defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries You mean America was doing the defending? That's hilarious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... And then there's the horror show of American intervention in South East Asia, and then there's the meddle, I mean Middle East.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    The US has been proven to meddle in democratic elections in every single continent, except Africa I think, at this point. But meddling in Africa will surely be made public at one point or another.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      On the other hand, are we really comparing the leadership of Afghanistan and Iraq to Ukraine and deciding these things are the same? Last I checked, Ukraine hadn't invaded its neighbors, gassed ethnic minorities, or taken freedom from its entire female population. The US handled Afghanistan and Iraq poorly, and lied about reasons for going in, but there were actual underlying reasons. Ukraine is only being invaded because Russia thinks it can. Hell, Ukraine explicitly gave up its weapons of mass destruction... in exchange for security guarantees... from Russia.
      - gumballindie 4y ago
        Dont bother, it’s a waste of time. I’ve gotten used to the idea that some people are pure evil.
        alienicecream 4y ago
        Yes, people that don't agree with you are pure evil.
      - capableweb 4y ago
        Multiple actors can be horrible at the same time. The US is pretty horrible when it invades other countries, so is Russia. As far as I know, Ukraine never had a military big enough to actually do any invasion of other countries, but if Ukraine was the size of the US with the military of the US, I wouldn't bet on them not being horrible when invading other countries.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        Multiple actors can be horrible (<0 ethics), but that doesn't mean that their absolute ethics value is irrelevant, or their relative horribleness to others. Russia is systematically deporting Ukrainian children to Russia and integrating them into Russian families as a matter of state policy. They're also indiscriminately bombing civilian targets weekly. Even during the worst days of Fallujah, the US and UK didn't pull back and just arbitrarily pound the city to dust with standoff munitions out of spite. Ukraine inherited a substantial amount of Soviet materiel after the collapse of the USSR, as well as the personnel trained in its use, however this quickly deteriorated as the support industrial base was in tatters (in Ukraine and Russia). But in the early 90s they absolutely could have made a very credible invasion against most of their neighbors. [0,1] Especially, say, the Cobasna ammunition depot in Moldova that's right on their border with up to 20,000 tons of Soviet munitions. [2] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunn%E2%80%93Lugar_Cooperative_Threat_Reduction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunn%E2%80%93Lugar_Cooperati... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot
- capableweb 4y ago
  > defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries Lol. > Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along. This is true for any military power, read stories about areas under occupation from "freedom loving" or "non-freedom loving" (?) military groups, and you'll find it is equally horrible no matter what country the groups are from.
  - tim333 4y ago
    Standards change though. I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago but Russia is a bit behind the times.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      I'm not sure if you count the US as developed or not, but in case you do, here are some highlights more recently than "a century or two ago": - Haditha massacre - Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Abu Ghraib prison - Enhanced interrogation techniques - Sơn Thắng massacre - Countless of others All by US officials and/or military members.
      - nickpp 4y ago
        Obviously unfortunate, but tiny, isolated and unintended incidents. Handful of victims. Widely condemned by the society. Meanwhile, Russia is bombing countries and killing millions as a strategy of conquest, while most Russian are clapping approvingly.
        capableweb 4y ago
        I'm not sure if "killing millions" is on purpose a exaggeration or not, but again, Russia is not alone in doing killing and bombing as a strategy (civilians be damned), the US is very familiar with that strategy. Do you think the initial night raid on Iraq was only targeting military targets? They were dropping random bombs on Baghdad. Multiple campaigns of Vietnam were just dropping a ton of bombs all over the country, no matter who it hit (Look up "Christmas bombings"). And lastly, don't forget about the only nuclear bombs that have been dropped have been dropped by the US military. That was indiscriminate killing at a scale never seen before, or since. Look, Russia is horrible, the invasion is super fucked up, I wish they weren't do that and it'll take a long time before I'll ever forget about the horribleness that Russia put others through, as I've personally helped people being received from Ukraine into the country where I currently live. But that doesn't mean other military powers aren't as horrible as Russia, all of them are, it's their purpose so that's what they do.
daveguy 4y ago
You misquoted your source. Clever tactic.
Brian_K_White 4y ago
Did I miss the memo where we invaded Canada or Mexico?
- gre 4y ago
  I'm having a hard time parsing the parent quote, but if you're asking when the US invaded Canada and Mexico, here are some times. Canda: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Invasion_of_Quebec_(1775)&useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Invasion_of_Quebe... https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_of_1812&useskin=vector#Invasions_of_Upper_and_Lower_Canada,_1812 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_of_1812&usesk... Mexico: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Mexic... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War
candiodari 4y ago
I think the problem is more along the lines of which particular Russians the Russian state allows to be considered ... and less changes in the individuals, either on the sending or receiving end of considerations.

scrollaway 4y ago

Correlation is not causation. Russia’s political decisions have a great influence on both geopolitics AND the decisions of individual Russians on whether they stay in the country.

gumballindie 4y ago

Yeah one of the two is constantly brutalising its neighbours, while the other is busy building tech and defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries. Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along.

biorach 4y ago
>defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries You mean America was doing the defending? That's hilarious. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... And then there's the horror show of American intervention in South East Asia, and then there's the meddle, I mean Middle East.
- capableweb 4y ago
  The US has been proven to meddle in democratic elections in every single continent, except Africa I think, at this point. But meddling in Africa will surely be made public at one point or another.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    On the other hand, are we really comparing the leadership of Afghanistan and Iraq to Ukraine and deciding these things are the same? Last I checked, Ukraine hadn't invaded its neighbors, gassed ethnic minorities, or taken freedom from its entire female population. The US handled Afghanistan and Iraq poorly, and lied about reasons for going in, but there were actual underlying reasons. Ukraine is only being invaded because Russia thinks it can. Hell, Ukraine explicitly gave up its weapons of mass destruction... in exchange for security guarantees... from Russia.
    - gumballindie 4y ago
      Dont bother, it’s a waste of time. I’ve gotten used to the idea that some people are pure evil.
      - alienicecream 4y ago
        Yes, people that don't agree with you are pure evil.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Multiple actors can be horrible at the same time. The US is pretty horrible when it invades other countries, so is Russia. As far as I know, Ukraine never had a military big enough to actually do any invasion of other countries, but if Ukraine was the size of the US with the military of the US, I wouldn't bet on them not being horrible when invading other countries.
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        Multiple actors can be horrible (<0 ethics), but that doesn't mean that their absolute ethics value is irrelevant, or their relative horribleness to others. Russia is systematically deporting Ukrainian children to Russia and integrating them into Russian families as a matter of state policy. They're also indiscriminately bombing civilian targets weekly. Even during the worst days of Fallujah, the US and UK didn't pull back and just arbitrarily pound the city to dust with standoff munitions out of spite. Ukraine inherited a substantial amount of Soviet materiel after the collapse of the USSR, as well as the personnel trained in its use, however this quickly deteriorated as the support industrial base was in tatters (in Ukraine and Russia). But in the early 90s they absolutely could have made a very credible invasion against most of their neighbors. [0,1] Especially, say, the Cobasna ammunition depot in Moldova that's right on their border with up to 20,000 tons of Soviet munitions. [2] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunn%E2%80%93Lugar_Cooperative_Threat_Reduction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunn%E2%80%93Lugar_Cooperati... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasna_ammunition_depot
capableweb 4y ago
> defending smaller, but freedom loving, countries Lol. > Our grandparents told us stories about the russian army that many found hard to believe. And here we are proven that they were right all along. This is true for any military power, read stories about areas under occupation from "freedom loving" or "non-freedom loving" (?) military groups, and you'll find it is equally horrible no matter what country the groups are from.
- tim333 4y ago
  Standards change though. I mean a lot of developed nations did atrocities a century or two ago but Russia is a bit behind the times.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    I'm not sure if you count the US as developed or not, but in case you do, here are some highlights more recently than "a century or two ago": - Haditha massacre - Mahmudiyah rape and killings - Abu Ghraib prison - Enhanced interrogation techniques - Sơn Thắng massacre - Countless of others All by US officials and/or military members.
    - nickpp 4y ago
      Obviously unfortunate, but tiny, isolated and unintended incidents. Handful of victims. Widely condemned by the society. Meanwhile, Russia is bombing countries and killing millions as a strategy of conquest, while most Russian are clapping approvingly.
      - capableweb 4y ago
        I'm not sure if "killing millions" is on purpose a exaggeration or not, but again, Russia is not alone in doing killing and bombing as a strategy (civilians be damned), the US is very familiar with that strategy. Do you think the initial night raid on Iraq was only targeting military targets? They were dropping random bombs on Baghdad. Multiple campaigns of Vietnam were just dropping a ton of bombs all over the country, no matter who it hit (Look up "Christmas bombings"). And lastly, don't forget about the only nuclear bombs that have been dropped have been dropped by the US military. That was indiscriminate killing at a scale never seen before, or since. Look, Russia is horrible, the invasion is super fucked up, I wish they weren't do that and it'll take a long time before I'll ever forget about the horribleness that Russia put others through, as I've personally helped people being received from Ukraine into the country where I currently live. But that doesn't mean other military powers aren't as horrible as Russia, all of them are, it's their purpose so that's what they do.

daveguy 4y ago

You misquoted your source. Clever tactic.

Brian_K_White 4y ago

Did I miss the memo where we invaded Canada or Mexico?

gre 4y ago
I'm having a hard time parsing the parent quote, but if you're asking when the US invaded Canada and Mexico, here are some times. Canda: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Invasion_of_Quebec_(1775)&useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Invasion_of_Quebe... https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_of_1812&useskin=vector#Invasions_of_Upper_and_Lower_Canada,_1812 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_of_1812&usesk... Mexico: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Mexic... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

candiodari 4y ago

I think the problem is more along the lines of which particular Russians the Russian state allows to be considered ... and less changes in the individuals, either on the sending or receiving end of considerations.