6 ms·

Does Libreboot (.org) still have the binary blob drama going on?

by gclawes 3y ago

anonym29 3y ago
Haven't heard of this, can you share more context or a link to a story about this?
- LukeShu 3y ago
  There was a sibling "osboot" project that allowed in the minimum amount of binary blobs to add support for more boards. This is at odds with the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies. In November 2022, libreboot merged osboot, adopting osboot's more permissive binary blob policy ( https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html ). Because libreboot is no longer in compliance with the FSF's policies, this has created some drama in the community. Some of the libreboot contributors have even split off and created a fork (also claiming the Libreboot name: https://libreboot.at/ https://libreboot.at/ ).
  - lioeters 3y ago
    Perhaps they can distinguish themselves as LibReboot, in contrast to LibreBoot.
  - anonym29 3y ago
    Thank you for the explanation!
neilv 3y ago
This? https://libreboot.org/freedom-status.html https://libreboot.org/freedom-status.html I wouldn't call it drama. There's often important practical reasons to try to minimize closed parts of the firmware. See also the high-security / high-trustworthiness work of Purism.
- LukeShu 3y ago
  There's definitely drama around it. There's drama around whether devices seeking RYF certification can use newer (blob-allowing) versions of Libreboot, even if the devices has a board for which Libreboot doesn't use blobs. There's drama around whether FSDG-following GNU/Linux distros can still ship the Libreboot tools. The page https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html does a better job of showing how the Libreboot's policy is at odds with the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies. And that disagreement between Libreboot and the FSF definitely causes drama in the community. Heck, a few Libreboot contributors split off and created a fork (also claiming the Libreboot name): https://libreboot.at/ https://libreboot.at/
  - newswasboring 3y ago
    I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      A debate can have an answer; this is two groups with mutually exclusive subjective views.
      - newswasboring 3y ago
        But you can absolutely debate subjective issues. We do that all the time when discussing policies.
      - LukeShu 3y ago
        But I would say that there is an answer here. Given the mutually-agreed on objective of protecting/creating-a-distribution-that-respects the users' rights to the 4 freedoms as defined by the FSF, there is an answer as to which policy best serves that goal. Libreboot has said "given that goal, we believe that the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies are problematic and partially undermine the goal", and the FSF has said "no, we believe that our RYF and FSDG policies are the best policies at this point in time, and Libreboot's non-compliance with those policies partially undermines the goal". But both sides agree on the goal.
jeroenhd 3y ago
I'm pretty sure that "drama" is the whole reason Libreboot exists, instead of just merging into the Coreboot project it's based on.
- Riku_V 3y ago
  Nope, what libreboot does is make coreboot simple for end users to install. With coreboot, you have to configure it manually (by design). Libreboot even provides pre-compiled binaries (with clear instructions on how to install them).
- guilhas 3y ago
  'Was' They recently included non-free binary blobs. They should probably rename to openboot

Does Libreboot (.org) still have the binary blob drama going on?

anonym29 3y ago

Haven't heard of this, can you share more context or a link to a story about this?

LukeShu 3y ago
There was a sibling "osboot" project that allowed in the minimum amount of binary blobs to add support for more boards. This is at odds with the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies. In November 2022, libreboot merged osboot, adopting osboot's more permissive binary blob policy ( https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html ). Because libreboot is no longer in compliance with the FSF's policies, this has created some drama in the community. Some of the libreboot contributors have even split off and created a fork (also claiming the Libreboot name: https://libreboot.at/ https://libreboot.at/ ).
- lioeters 3y ago
  Perhaps they can distinguish themselves as LibReboot, in contrast to LibreBoot.
- anonym29 3y ago
  Thank you for the explanation!

neilv 3y ago

This? https://libreboot.org/freedom-status.html https://libreboot.org/freedom-status.html I wouldn't call it drama. There's often important practical reasons to try to minimize closed parts of the firmware. See also the high-security / high-trustworthiness work of Purism.

LukeShu 3y ago
There's definitely drama around it. There's drama around whether devices seeking RYF certification can use newer (blob-allowing) versions of Libreboot, even if the devices has a board for which Libreboot doesn't use blobs. There's drama around whether FSDG-following GNU/Linux distros can still ship the Libreboot tools. The page https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html does a better job of showing how the Libreboot's policy is at odds with the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies. And that disagreement between Libreboot and the FSF definitely causes drama in the community. Heck, a few Libreboot contributors split off and created a fork (also claiming the Libreboot name): https://libreboot.at/ https://libreboot.at/
- newswasboring 3y ago
  I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    A debate can have an answer; this is two groups with mutually exclusive subjective views.
    - newswasboring 3y ago
      But you can absolutely debate subjective issues. We do that all the time when discussing policies.
    - LukeShu 3y ago
      But I would say that there is an answer here. Given the mutually-agreed on objective of protecting/creating-a-distribution-that-respects the users' rights to the 4 freedoms as defined by the FSF, there is an answer as to which policy best serves that goal. Libreboot has said "given that goal, we believe that the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies are problematic and partially undermine the goal", and the FSF has said "no, we believe that our RYF and FSDG policies are the best policies at this point in time, and Libreboot's non-compliance with those policies partially undermines the goal". But both sides agree on the goal.

jeroenhd 3y ago

I'm pretty sure that "drama" is the whole reason Libreboot exists, instead of just merging into the Coreboot project it's based on.

Riku_V 3y ago
Nope, what libreboot does is make coreboot simple for end users to install. With coreboot, you have to configure it manually (by design). Libreboot even provides pre-compiled binaries (with clear instructions on how to install them).
guilhas 3y ago
'Was' They recently included non-free binary blobs. They should probably rename to openboot