6 ms·

I looked into this, as I'm starting to burn out of working in the industry. The community colleges in my area require a surprising amount of prerequisites and

I looked into this, as I'm starting to burn out of working in the industry. The community colleges in my area require a surprising amount of prerequisites and pay _dismally_. Even with 15 years of industry experience, I'd need at least a year or two of additional schooling (while not being paid) to earn a paltry few hundred dollars per credit hour per semester while teaching. Hard sell to not get paid for a few years to then take a 75-90% pay cut.

ramraj07 4y ago
The irony being I know lecturers who teach at actually prestigious universities and make decent money and have none of the useless requirements satisfied.
- hgsgm 4y ago
  PhD and postdoc include on the job training as a teacher.
  - grogenaut 4y ago
    But does not give you the certifications/course work. Which the cc likely requires. I went to take an EMT class. I was required to show I passed high school algebra. I couldn't get my hs transcript. The cc wouldn't accept my college transcript because the lowest math I took in college was calc two. Same for English comp. I tested out of that in college so much lowest comp class was 350 - tech writing. I had to take 2 hours of online tests to show the competency. For a class that didn't even require either.
  - ramraj07 4y ago
    The person has neither..
Mezzie 4y ago
I'm not in tech but I'm qualified to adjunct/teach some other subjects and this is it. I'm even a good teacher. But why would I do it when I'm making more and I'm treated better working retail? My local CC just posted a part-time librarian job I would jump on if it paid more than 21/hr. Fuck that - I could do better as a waitress or bartender. If they want to use my experience and education they can pay for it; God knows they're charging the kids enough.
- porknubbins 4y ago
  I thought community colleges were just a fraction of the cost of 4 year colleges? In my state at least CC are free to local HS grads. I think in a lot of cases you would have to do it out of a desire to teach rather than as an profit maximizer.
  - fn-mote 4y ago
    > rather than as an profit maximizer We're not talking about profit MAXIMIZING, this is planning your own exploitation. You would have to be supported by someone else or be independently wealthy to take typical CC jobs. In the US in my area, I'm pretty sure you'd be better teaching K-12 because the unions are bigger / stronger and hence the benefits and job security are greater.
    - Mezzie 4y ago
      This, basically. I would happily teach at a CC for ~40-50k. I consider having my basic economic needs taken care of a necessity to being a good teacher - there is a correlation between poverty/economic stress and agitation, irritability, etc. Being in constant stress is not going to be conducive towards teaching well. If I have to work 2 jobs, I'm going to not spend my time grading thoroughly, I will choose the quick and easy route to curriculum development instead of tailoring the curriculum, etc. Oh and forget time for office hours or student emails; have to go deliver groceries or work at a car wash so I can make rent. I'm not going to take a job where I'm not given what I need to be good at the job - it's terrible for me and it's terrible for the students. The only 'winner' is the institution.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    I genuinely would like to teach - K-12 or higher ed. I will not work somewhere where I am expected to put in extra hours for no extra pay, allow people to physically and verbally abuse me, and doesn't pay enough for me to make rent and bills. I don't expect a CC to pay amazingly, but if they want good people they should at least make sure that they offer a better deal than jobs who only want a GED and right now they aren't. Plus the salaries are skewed: I could get a good paying job at my local CC... in the development or 'business' side of things. But not to actually teach. If you can pay data analysts 70k there's no reason to stiff your educational staff. It says a lot about the values of that institution.
300bps 4y ago
I taught a non-credit course on Novell Networking at a local college back when I was a Certified Netware Engineer. Will never do that again. 10% of the class picked it up quickly. 80% of the class picked it up. 10% of the class would never understand the material and dragged the rest of the class down asking incessant questions. The money was a joke and I hated it.
- nortonham 4y ago
  I feel like that would be the case no matter the school and no matter the subject.. In any class there are some students who just don't care, or are out of their depth.
- bluedino 4y ago
  Being on the student side of this, it seems like half of the class was there because of their employer. Some people were "learning new skills", and attended as a requirement. They just sat on their phones the whole time. Zero intention of learning or being employed in this capacity. Then there were the people with zero computer skills that shouldn't have been in the class, and took up the entire two first days with how to sign into their student account, use and RDP session... Hopefully after the first couple weeks all of those have dropped out.
  - pc86 4y ago
    Hopefully the instructor in those cases is willing and able to just flunk the students who aren't trying, or just aren't capable of handling the material.
  - grogenaut 4y ago
    I saw some of these during a machining class near Boeing. Most were actually trying to learn but it felt like high school with them fucking around on the machines. Some were real serious which is who I talked to. The worst were the folks who were literally of the opinion that they just sat through this bullshit like a mushroom and they'd check the boxes to move up one grade at the union. One of these was a dude who constantly complained out loud about the math. Machining feeds and speeds is based on the surface feet / minute or your metric equivalent of the speed of the outer diameter of your cutter. So pi is used a lot. The equation is on every wall. 5 minutes in while everyone was signing paperwork I had reversed the formular for every variable. Page 3 of the book does that for you and makes pi 3 for ease and safety. This was the math the guy complained about. We had to do it 5 times total. 7 classes in this dude still had not brought in a calculator and the laziest kid in the class mocked him for it. This same guy who couldn't / wouldn't do the math spent an hour at lunch explaining his intricate scheme to basically work 14 days each year for the next 2 years before exiting out to part time and then retirement with his full benes. So he could do it, but he just wanted to sit at home playing guitar and drinking and subjected the rest of is this complaints. Also he hogged the professors time a lot. There were some others who did not have the math skills to do offsets/ zero setting on depth of drill holes. But when the professors could give them the time they could usually come up with a way to explain it. That guy wanted to learn but also felt that once he was certified his job was to read a book until the machine went into fault mode, so the training got him an easier job. He didn't actually need to understand any of the training to hit a button when a light went red.
znpy 4y ago
In fairness, if community college paid more they would probably be way more expensive for students
hgsgm 4y ago
Teaching at community college is community service, not a career.
- spicyusername 4y ago
  Many forms of community service don't ask that you bankrupt yourself to contribute.
bane 4y ago
> The community colleges in my area require a surprising amount of prerequisites and pay _dismally_. Exactly. They want quality education provided by people who see it as a social giveback. The pay is almost an honorarium. Many CC professors are seniors in industry or professors at other local universities who do it really to give people a chance or to help with career mobility within their industry.
dcchambers 4y ago
Full time, permanent staff teachers at our local CC make good money. Not "big tech" money by any means, but definitely a respectable salary above the average for the area. The part time teachers make barely anything though.
perrygeo 4y ago
Even if you've got the prerequisites in hand to teach on a topic, the pay is just laughable. You're likely expected to lecture, develop a full curriculum, grade their work, and hold office hours. Easily a few hours a week for every "credit hour". I had a friend who taught at our local comm college for a few semesters and worked out the pay to be less than $7/hr. For an advanced almost graduate-level IT topic. It's a joke. His advice - if you want to teach, do it as a volunteer. Don't hold any illusions about getting compensated.

ramraj07 4y ago

The irony being I know lecturers who teach at actually prestigious universities and make decent money and have none of the useless requirements satisfied.

hgsgm 4y ago
PhD and postdoc include on the job training as a teacher.
- grogenaut 4y ago
  But does not give you the certifications/course work. Which the cc likely requires. I went to take an EMT class. I was required to show I passed high school algebra. I couldn't get my hs transcript. The cc wouldn't accept my college transcript because the lowest math I took in college was calc two. Same for English comp. I tested out of that in college so much lowest comp class was 350 - tech writing. I had to take 2 hours of online tests to show the competency. For a class that didn't even require either.
- ramraj07 4y ago
  The person has neither..

Mezzie 4y ago

I'm not in tech but I'm qualified to adjunct/teach some other subjects and this is it. I'm even a good teacher. But why would I do it when I'm making more and I'm treated better working retail? My local CC just posted a part-time librarian job I would jump on if it paid more than 21/hr. Fuck that - I could do better as a waitress or bartender. If they want to use my experience and education they can pay for it; God knows they're charging the kids enough.

porknubbins 4y ago
I thought community colleges were just a fraction of the cost of 4 year colleges? In my state at least CC are free to local HS grads. I think in a lot of cases you would have to do it out of a desire to teach rather than as an profit maximizer.
- fn-mote 4y ago
  > rather than as an profit maximizer We're not talking about profit MAXIMIZING, this is planning your own exploitation. You would have to be supported by someone else or be independently wealthy to take typical CC jobs. In the US in my area, I'm pretty sure you'd be better teaching K-12 because the unions are bigger / stronger and hence the benefits and job security are greater.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    This, basically. I would happily teach at a CC for ~40-50k. I consider having my basic economic needs taken care of a necessity to being a good teacher - there is a correlation between poverty/economic stress and agitation, irritability, etc. Being in constant stress is not going to be conducive towards teaching well. If I have to work 2 jobs, I'm going to not spend my time grading thoroughly, I will choose the quick and easy route to curriculum development instead of tailoring the curriculum, etc. Oh and forget time for office hours or student emails; have to go deliver groceries or work at a car wash so I can make rent. I'm not going to take a job where I'm not given what I need to be good at the job - it's terrible for me and it's terrible for the students. The only 'winner' is the institution.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  I genuinely would like to teach - K-12 or higher ed. I will not work somewhere where I am expected to put in extra hours for no extra pay, allow people to physically and verbally abuse me, and doesn't pay enough for me to make rent and bills. I don't expect a CC to pay amazingly, but if they want good people they should at least make sure that they offer a better deal than jobs who only want a GED and right now they aren't. Plus the salaries are skewed: I could get a good paying job at my local CC... in the development or 'business' side of things. But not to actually teach. If you can pay data analysts 70k there's no reason to stiff your educational staff. It says a lot about the values of that institution.

300bps 4y ago

I taught a non-credit course on Novell Networking at a local college back when I was a Certified Netware Engineer. Will never do that again. 10% of the class picked it up quickly. 80% of the class picked it up. 10% of the class would never understand the material and dragged the rest of the class down asking incessant questions. The money was a joke and I hated it.

nortonham 4y ago
I feel like that would be the case no matter the school and no matter the subject.. In any class there are some students who just don't care, or are out of their depth.
bluedino 4y ago
Being on the student side of this, it seems like half of the class was there because of their employer. Some people were "learning new skills", and attended as a requirement. They just sat on their phones the whole time. Zero intention of learning or being employed in this capacity. Then there were the people with zero computer skills that shouldn't have been in the class, and took up the entire two first days with how to sign into their student account, use and RDP session... Hopefully after the first couple weeks all of those have dropped out.
- pc86 4y ago
  Hopefully the instructor in those cases is willing and able to just flunk the students who aren't trying, or just aren't capable of handling the material.
- grogenaut 4y ago
  I saw some of these during a machining class near Boeing. Most were actually trying to learn but it felt like high school with them fucking around on the machines. Some were real serious which is who I talked to. The worst were the folks who were literally of the opinion that they just sat through this bullshit like a mushroom and they'd check the boxes to move up one grade at the union. One of these was a dude who constantly complained out loud about the math. Machining feeds and speeds is based on the surface feet / minute or your metric equivalent of the speed of the outer diameter of your cutter. So pi is used a lot. The equation is on every wall. 5 minutes in while everyone was signing paperwork I had reversed the formular for every variable. Page 3 of the book does that for you and makes pi 3 for ease and safety. This was the math the guy complained about. We had to do it 5 times total. 7 classes in this dude still had not brought in a calculator and the laziest kid in the class mocked him for it. This same guy who couldn't / wouldn't do the math spent an hour at lunch explaining his intricate scheme to basically work 14 days each year for the next 2 years before exiting out to part time and then retirement with his full benes. So he could do it, but he just wanted to sit at home playing guitar and drinking and subjected the rest of is this complaints. Also he hogged the professors time a lot. There were some others who did not have the math skills to do offsets/ zero setting on depth of drill holes. But when the professors could give them the time they could usually come up with a way to explain it. That guy wanted to learn but also felt that once he was certified his job was to read a book until the machine went into fault mode, so the training got him an easier job. He didn't actually need to understand any of the training to hit a button when a light went red.

znpy 4y ago

In fairness, if community college paid more they would probably be way more expensive for students

hgsgm 4y ago

Teaching at community college is community service, not a career.

spicyusername 4y ago
Many forms of community service don't ask that you bankrupt yourself to contribute.

bane 4y ago

> The community colleges in my area require a surprising amount of prerequisites and pay _dismally_. Exactly. They want quality education provided by people who see it as a social giveback. The pay is almost an honorarium. Many CC professors are seniors in industry or professors at other local universities who do it really to give people a chance or to help with career mobility within their industry.

dcchambers 4y ago

Full time, permanent staff teachers at our local CC make good money. Not "big tech" money by any means, but definitely a respectable salary above the average for the area. The part time teachers make barely anything though.

perrygeo 4y ago

Even if you've got the prerequisites in hand to teach on a topic, the pay is just laughable. You're likely expected to lecture, develop a full curriculum, grade their work, and hold office hours. Easily a few hours a week for every "credit hour". I had a friend who taught at our local comm college for a few semesters and worked out the pay to be less than $7/hr. For an advanced almost graduate-level IT topic. It's a joke. His advice - if you want to teach, do it as a volunteer. Don't hold any illusions about getting compensated.