2 ms·

When Cleopatra was alive, she wasn’t categorised by the colour of her skin

hunglee2 4y ago
It is important to contextualise our relatively modern ideas of race, but I think in so doing, the author avoids the requirement to rebut the explicit claim made by Pinkett-Smith that Cleopatra was in fact a black person, as a modern US individual would understand this term. This claim is rooted in an ideology peculiar to the US which claims pristine Africa to be 'black only' and therefore anyone who isn't, must be some kind interloper, transgressor or coloniser. It is is understandable for today's Egyptians to be outraged at this. Ironically, it is Cleopatra herself who could be most appropriately described as a late comer, coming as she does from Ptolemaic dynasty. She was conspicuous at the time by being the first of the Ptolemies to actually try and learn the local language and adopt the customs of the people she ruled. She was neither a Nubian, Arab nor native Egyptian, but a Macedonian Greek, and would be described as a white person today.
jleyank 4y ago
If they want claims on Egyptian kinds and queens as native Africans of various descent, there are other, better choices available. Greek interlopers at the end of Egypt’s history as it were are not optimal as previously mentioned here.
proc0 4y ago
The article is a subtle strawman. The problem is not entirely the race swap itself. Netflix and Hollywood have been race swapping characters in ONE direction only with the excuse of representation and "modern audiences". There is no way this casting would happen in the opposite direction by casting a lighter skin actress to play a dark skin woman. The bias is intentional and they have admitted as much in previous works, so to say this is somehow a creative decision is disingenuous. Obviously this is an ideological decision > If the projection of Cleopatra as black is rooted in myth and wish fulfilment, that of her as “white” equally taps into racial fables Isn't the series is called "Black Queens"? Completely invalidating the whole article. As a side note, I don't understand how mainstream entertainment cannot create new stories or find historical events that are about unrepresented minorities. Their creativity is seriously lacking.
- elmerfud 4y ago
  I think people's issue is less with the race swap, even in a docudrama, but more the defense of it as being more genuinely correct race for the role. That's just intentionally misleading as as you say an ideology decision. There would probably be very little hubbub, if they wouldn't have said anything or said with all factors considered we picked who we thought would be the best actress for the role because we're presenting a historical drama not history lesson. At the end of the day there is no bad press as they say. People are talking about it which means people are going to watch it. So maybe this was a well calculated free media campaign.
desktopninja 4y ago
Funnily enough if the “if we have one Black ancestor, then we are Black.” was flipped to “if we have one White ancestor, then we are White.” the same controversy would exist. Race is just a another word for tribalism. Its time to drop the nonsensical concept of race from our western ideology. There were some truly fantastical ideas from the enlightenment period that should never have accepted and race is a glaring one. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna28216005 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna28216005

It is important to contextualise our relatively modern ideas of race, but I think in so doing, the author avoids the requirement to rebut the explicit claim made by Pinkett-Smith that Cleopatra was in fact a black person, as a modern US individual would understand this term. This claim is rooted in an ideology peculiar to the US which claims pristine Africa to be 'black only' and therefore anyone who isn't, must be some kind interloper, transgressor or coloniser. It is is understandable for today's Egyptians to be outraged at this. Ironically, it is Cleopatra herself who could be most appropriately described as a late comer, coming as she does from Ptolemaic dynasty. She was conspicuous at the time by being the first of the Ptolemies to actually try and learn the local language and adopt the customs of the people she ruled. She was neither a Nubian, Arab nor native Egyptian, but a Macedonian Greek, and would be described as a white person today.

jleyank 4y ago

If they want claims on Egyptian kinds and queens as native Africans of various descent, there are other, better choices available. Greek interlopers at the end of Egypt’s history as it were are not optimal as previously mentioned here.

proc0 4y ago

The article is a subtle strawman. The problem is not entirely the race swap itself. Netflix and Hollywood have been race swapping characters in ONE direction only with the excuse of representation and "modern audiences". There is no way this casting would happen in the opposite direction by casting a lighter skin actress to play a dark skin woman. The bias is intentional and they have admitted as much in previous works, so to say this is somehow a creative decision is disingenuous. Obviously this is an ideological decision > If the projection of Cleopatra as black is rooted in myth and wish fulfilment, that of her as “white” equally taps into racial fables Isn't the series is called "Black Queens"? Completely invalidating the whole article. As a side note, I don't understand how mainstream entertainment cannot create new stories or find historical events that are about unrepresented minorities. Their creativity is seriously lacking.

elmerfud 4y ago
I think people's issue is less with the race swap, even in a docudrama, but more the defense of it as being more genuinely correct race for the role. That's just intentionally misleading as as you say an ideology decision. There would probably be very little hubbub, if they wouldn't have said anything or said with all factors considered we picked who we thought would be the best actress for the role because we're presenting a historical drama not history lesson. At the end of the day there is no bad press as they say. People are talking about it which means people are going to watch it. So maybe this was a well calculated free media campaign.

desktopninja 4y ago

Funnily enough if the “if we have one Black ancestor, then we are Black.” was flipped to “if we have one White ancestor, then we are White.” the same controversy would exist. Race is just a another word for tribalism. Its time to drop the nonsensical concept of race from our western ideology. There were some truly fantastical ideas from the enlightenment period that should never have accepted and race is a glaring one. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna28216005 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna28216005