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If users don't want crappy PWAs than they wont use them. It's common sense to let "the market decide" -- why not in this case?

rimliu 3y ago
And they don't. How come Android still has apps that are not PWAs?
LadyCailin 3y ago
Market decisions don’t do anything to prevent the tragedy of the commons - is the general answer. I have mixed opinions on this specific case, but I absolutely see how this could make things worse. If everyone starts releasing their own versions, and not offering the apps in the App Store anymore, than the people who prefer the walled garden (for which there are good reasons to want) then they lose that choice. It’s possible that doesn’t happen - and allowing people that don’t want the walled garden should also have that choice, but you can’t simply boil this complex question down to “free market”. It’s intellectually dishonest, at best.
mnd999 3y ago
They won’t have a choice. Low quality crap is cheaper to make so in a lot of cases that is all there will be.
kiicia 3y ago
in this specific case its Google decision, not whole market, Google is usurping web space and web standards
palata 3y ago
Counter-example: I don't want crappy ElectronJS apps, but I don't have a choice. Discord/Slack don't have an open API that would allow a good third-party client. If I don't like PWAs but WhatsApp stops supporting anything else, how can I use WhatsApp without the PWA?
- lxgr 3y ago
  There are definitely too many crappy Electron apps out there, but at least WhatsApp have been working on a native macOS/iPad OS app for more than a year now. Last time I tried the beta, it wasn't really usable yet, but at least there is hope.
  - palata 3y ago
    Nice! I'm always happy when companies make real native apps (in that case Electron can be kept as a fallback) :-). What would be great would be for them to have some kind of API to let people write their own clients. Maybe there are big downsides with that (Loss of control? Having to keep backward compatibility?) but I don't really see them.
timeon 3y ago
> It's common sense to let "the market decide" -- why not in this case? Apple is the market here. If people wants to have PWAs they do not buy Apple products. But in reality "the market decide" is not common sense - that is why we have regulations.
Sporktacular 3y ago
Because markets sometimes fail so it pays to be sure if that would or wouldn't happen. How many Android customers choose an app based on its API? What is the quality of the Android store? Why would it work differently for an Apple Store?

rimliu 3y ago

And they don't. How come Android still has apps that are not PWAs?

LadyCailin 3y ago

Market decisions don’t do anything to prevent the tragedy of the commons - is the general answer. I have mixed opinions on this specific case, but I absolutely see how this could make things worse. If everyone starts releasing their own versions, and not offering the apps in the App Store anymore, than the people who prefer the walled garden (for which there are good reasons to want) then they lose that choice. It’s possible that doesn’t happen - and allowing people that don’t want the walled garden should also have that choice, but you can’t simply boil this complex question down to “free market”. It’s intellectually dishonest, at best.

mnd999 3y ago

They won’t have a choice. Low quality crap is cheaper to make so in a lot of cases that is all there will be.

kiicia 3y ago

in this specific case its Google decision, not whole market, Google is usurping web space and web standards

palata 3y ago

Counter-example: I don't want crappy ElectronJS apps, but I don't have a choice. Discord/Slack don't have an open API that would allow a good third-party client. If I don't like PWAs but WhatsApp stops supporting anything else, how can I use WhatsApp without the PWA?

lxgr 3y ago
There are definitely too many crappy Electron apps out there, but at least WhatsApp have been working on a native macOS/iPad OS app for more than a year now. Last time I tried the beta, it wasn't really usable yet, but at least there is hope.
- palata 3y ago
  Nice! I'm always happy when companies make real native apps (in that case Electron can be kept as a fallback) :-). What would be great would be for them to have some kind of API to let people write their own clients. Maybe there are big downsides with that (Loss of control? Having to keep backward compatibility?) but I don't really see them.

timeon 3y ago

> It's common sense to let "the market decide" -- why not in this case? Apple is the market here. If people wants to have PWAs they do not buy Apple products. But in reality "the market decide" is not common sense - that is why we have regulations.

Sporktacular 3y ago

Because markets sometimes fail so it pays to be sure if that would or wouldn't happen. How many Android customers choose an app based on its API? What is the quality of the Android store? Why would it work differently for an Apple Store?