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If we were being very pedantic, what would you say is the test of ownership? If you buy an iPhone you can sell it or destroy it, so it meets those requirements

If we were being very pedantic, what would you say is the test of ownership? If you buy an iPhone you can sell it or destroy it, so it meets those requirements of ownership. You can't destroy something you're renting, so you clearly aren't renting an iPhone. How would I know if I own a device or not? If you buy an iPhone, but don't think you own it. Why don't you think you own it? If your response is "because I can't run the software I want to on it," is that a problem with the perception of what you bought or is that a violation of the idea of ownership? If that's a violation of the idea of ownership, why?

letier 4y ago
If you’re required to accept license agreements to be able to use the device and those agreements restrict you in how you use it, then I see this as a restriction to your ownership. Especially if the terms are opaque and not clearly communicated before the purchase.
PeterisP 4y ago
Property law has been deep on all the various aspects of ownership for millenia, so there's a big "bundle of rights" which any specific type of ownership may or may not have. One test for "full ownership" is the contractual restrictions that come attached; i.e. whether the law is the only thing that limits what you can do with the thing, or whether there are some extra conditions (which are not that rare in e.g. real estate deals for as long as we have recorded history); that's generally considered ownership but a restricted one. On the other hand, if you aren't prohibited to do that thing but simply aren't capable of doing it, that would still be considered unrestricted ownership. But something that is a key part of ownership - especially with respect to various "buying" of e.g. games - is the ability to transfer it to others. If you can't give or sell the thing you've purchased to someone else, that clearly indicates that you don't own it.
tchalla 4y ago
> If we were being very pedantic, what would you say is the test of ownership? Here's the concept of ownership for private property in German Law. It's broadly defined as 1) Exclusive Rights, 2) Transferability, 3) Protection against Unlawful Interference, 4) Compensation for Expropriation and 5) Inheritance and Succession.

letier 4y ago

If you’re required to accept license agreements to be able to use the device and those agreements restrict you in how you use it, then I see this as a restriction to your ownership. Especially if the terms are opaque and not clearly communicated before the purchase.

PeterisP 4y ago

Property law has been deep on all the various aspects of ownership for millenia, so there's a big "bundle of rights" which any specific type of ownership may or may not have. One test for "full ownership" is the contractual restrictions that come attached; i.e. whether the law is the only thing that limits what you can do with the thing, or whether there are some extra conditions (which are not that rare in e.g. real estate deals for as long as we have recorded history); that's generally considered ownership but a restricted one. On the other hand, if you aren't prohibited to do that thing but simply aren't capable of doing it, that would still be considered unrestricted ownership. But something that is a key part of ownership - especially with respect to various "buying" of e.g. games - is the ability to transfer it to others. If you can't give or sell the thing you've purchased to someone else, that clearly indicates that you don't own it.

tchalla 4y ago

> If we were being very pedantic, what would you say is the test of ownership? Here's the concept of ownership for private property in German Law. It's broadly defined as 1) Exclusive Rights, 2) Transferability, 3) Protection against Unlawful Interference, 4) Compensation for Expropriation and 5) Inheritance and Succession.