5 ms·

US was supposedly well intentioned in a lot of countries that are now in chaos. Good luck finding a conflict where the US wasn't poking around before it starte

US was supposedly well intentioned in a lot of countries that are now in chaos. Good luck finding a conflict where the US wasn't poking around before it started.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> good luck finding a conflict where the US wasn't poking around before it started The Cold War saw the U.S. and USSR take geopolitical positions with global remit. There is no conflict where either “wasn’t poking around before it started” because there was no place either wasn’t. In some cases, e.g. the banana republics, we can clearly trace causation to one party. Sudan is more complicated: there is a mix of foreign interests, some American-aligned, some not.
- wouldbecouldbe 4y ago
  Thats too easy, also after 2000's its the case: iraq, syria, ukraine just mention a few
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    My entire point was America pokes around. You’re mentioning more cases. Yes. We do that. Sometimes, mostly around WWII, we did it well. Since Vietnam, the record has been crap. (Question mark for the first Gulf War.) Ukraine and Taiwan look more like the work our Greatest Generation did than the Boomer years. The conflicts we hear the least about tend to be those we were least involved in. Myanmar. Tigray. Whatever the fuck South Africa is currently up to.
    - wouldbecouldbe 4y ago
      Come on, too easy. Too many lives have been lost to just step over it with a shoulder shrug.
    - timellis-smith 4y ago
      As far as I know, South Africa hasn't been involved in anything since Angola. The current military probably couldn't find enough working vehicles to even get to a conflict let alone fight one.
wheelerof4te 4y ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Taiwan (supporting and encouraging the separatist government) Wat. In case this is serious, the largest shift in Taiwanese identity was caused by Xi [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_i...
  - wheelerof4te 4y ago
    Yeah, the whole mainland full of Chinese people sure is a minority when compared to one tiny island. Those people aren't real Chinese, the Taiwanese are! /s Also "Sample size in April 19, 2022: 1071" Bullshit.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > the whole mainland full of Chinese people sure is a minority when compared to one tiny island. Those people aren't real Chinese, the Taiwanese are What? That isn’t what’s being asked. It’s whether Taiwanese identify as Taiwanese exclusively, Chinese exclusively, or both. And following Xi’s mistakes, the fraction identifying as the last has quartered.
      - wheelerof4te 4y ago
        And I'm saying that the metrics they used are bullshit. It is also important who made the survey. If it was one of the pro-West NGOs, then the results will be skewed in their favor. Opposite if the Chinese government did it. As is the usual with these kinds of surveys. They mean jack sh*t.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > survey. If it was one of the pro-West NGOs Nope. There is a source column. No foreign sources. And the public ones cross governments. Which, again, changed because of Xi’s hamfistedness.
Rebelgecko 4y ago
Not to get all Bayesian on you, but I'd imagine it's just as hard to find a peaceful country that hasn't had the US poking around.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Switzerland? That was easy. Singapore maybe? Don't know enough to be 100% sure.
  - rcme 4y ago
    The U.S. bombed Singapore during WWII.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    It depends on your threshold of meddling, although I suppose you're right that those 2 countries are on the lighter side. There was a big kerfuffle with Singapore in the late 80s re: Francis Seow, and the US supplies weapons to both of those countries.
- wouldbecouldbe 4y ago
  Throwing over a government like in Ukraine is a bit more then having a base. I get it, it's funny, but US destroyed so many unnecessary lives it;s not really. Im in favor of a strong US as a leading power of the World, instead of China or Russia, but there needs to be a lot more accountabliity.

US was supposedly well intentioned in a lot of countries that are now in chaos. Good luck finding a conflict where the US wasn't poking around before it started.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> good luck finding a conflict where the US wasn't poking around before it started The Cold War saw the U.S. and USSR take geopolitical positions with global remit. There is no conflict where either “wasn’t poking around before it started” because there was no place either wasn’t. In some cases, e.g. the banana republics, we can clearly trace causation to one party. Sudan is more complicated: there is a mix of foreign interests, some American-aligned, some not.

wouldbecouldbe 4y ago
Thats too easy, also after 2000's its the case: iraq, syria, ukraine just mention a few
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  My entire point was America pokes around. You’re mentioning more cases. Yes. We do that. Sometimes, mostly around WWII, we did it well. Since Vietnam, the record has been crap. (Question mark for the first Gulf War.) Ukraine and Taiwan look more like the work our Greatest Generation did than the Boomer years. The conflicts we hear the least about tend to be those we were least involved in. Myanmar. Tigray. Whatever the fuck South Africa is currently up to.
  - wouldbecouldbe 4y ago
    Come on, too easy. Too many lives have been lost to just step over it with a shoulder shrug.
  - timellis-smith 4y ago
    As far as I know, South Africa hasn't been involved in anything since Angola. The current military probably couldn't find enough working vehicles to even get to a conflict let alone fight one.

wheelerof4te 4y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Taiwan (supporting and encouraging the separatist government) Wat. In case this is serious, the largest shift in Taiwanese identity was caused by Xi [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_i...
- wheelerof4te 4y ago
  Yeah, the whole mainland full of Chinese people sure is a minority when compared to one tiny island. Those people aren't real Chinese, the Taiwanese are! /s Also "Sample size in April 19, 2022: 1071" Bullshit.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > the whole mainland full of Chinese people sure is a minority when compared to one tiny island. Those people aren't real Chinese, the Taiwanese are What? That isn’t what’s being asked. It’s whether Taiwanese identify as Taiwanese exclusively, Chinese exclusively, or both. And following Xi’s mistakes, the fraction identifying as the last has quartered.
    - wheelerof4te 4y ago
      And I'm saying that the metrics they used are bullshit. It is also important who made the survey. If it was one of the pro-West NGOs, then the results will be skewed in their favor. Opposite if the Chinese government did it. As is the usual with these kinds of surveys. They mean jack sh*t.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > survey. If it was one of the pro-West NGOs Nope. There is a source column. No foreign sources. And the public ones cross governments. Which, again, changed because of Xi’s hamfistedness.

Rebelgecko 4y ago

Not to get all Bayesian on you, but I'd imagine it's just as hard to find a peaceful country that hasn't had the US poking around.

saiya-jin 4y ago
Switzerland? That was easy. Singapore maybe? Don't know enough to be 100% sure.
- rcme 4y ago
  The U.S. bombed Singapore during WWII.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  It depends on your threshold of meddling, although I suppose you're right that those 2 countries are on the lighter side. There was a big kerfuffle with Singapore in the late 80s re: Francis Seow, and the US supplies weapons to both of those countries.
wouldbecouldbe 4y ago
Throwing over a government like in Ukraine is a bit more then having a base. I get it, it's funny, but US destroyed so many unnecessary lives it;s not really. Im in favor of a strong US as a leading power of the World, instead of China or Russia, but there needs to be a lot more accountabliity.