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I think they are referring to "needing a developer" to push to staging, not that there wasn't a staging environment. That means the designer who codes is still

by zamnos 4y ago

I think they are referring to "needing a developer" to push to staging, not that there wasn't a staging environment. That means the designer who codes is still blocked by available developer time, and if the developer is out that they, they what? just don't work for the day? This not-entirely-hypothetical individual just started learning to code. Getting caught up with package managers isn't great, but are you expecting them to write all of the code they need from scratch? Don't professional developers use other people's work (aka libraries) to make their job easier? Why wouldn't a beginning developer also want access to those same libraries? What's easier, writing a whole interactive animation library from scratch, or using someone else's library that implements a bunch of stuff for you? If you want to use this library, why not use some sort of software to manage it? Or is the designer-developer not allowed to use Google to find cool libraries to reduce the amount of typing distracting code into a lifeless VScode window they have to do?

exodust 4y ago
> "...expecting them to write all of the code they need from scratch?" Yes! Coding is not about downloading a library and hoping it prevents you needing to code. > "writing a whole interactive animation library" You mean all 20 lines of code needed for an animated widget? Sure... let's download a 500 line animation library and use 5% of its functionality. Package ideology reminds me of Wordpress plugins. "Just use a plugin" works great until you're drowning in plugins and your server CPU is spiking beyond reason because the plugins don't all play nice together. As I said, the designer who codes may be welcomed by their engineer colleagues, who provide flexible means for them to contribute and push changes. Perhaps to a certain branch or otherwise streamline the process via Github Desktop or some less intense process, or even just sFTP to a place that can be previewed for later integration once everyone is happy the code is sound.
- zamnos 4y ago
  > You mean all 20 lines of code needed for an animated widget? Sure... let's download a 500 line animation library and use 5% of its functionality. Oh good, I was worried you actually understood what it's like to be new and not very good at programming, as we all were, when we first started out. That you're dragging in an unrelated rant about WordPress plugins tells me all I need to understand about where you're coming from.
  - exodust 4y ago
    You didn't like my Wordpress plugin comparison!? I'll write it better. Package clutter, maintenance, integrity, updates, all those things are spinning plates. Similar to Wordpress' needy and naggy plugin ecosystem found there. New coders/designers should spin less plates at once. Raw CSS animation, then JS loops, timers and manipulations. Add a one line easing function you find somewhere such as this excellent page: spicyyoghurt.com/tools/easing-functions, and this helps fulfil the "who codes" goal more than "who installs." You're right there are libraries that will be used and useful. But don't be surprised if designer-types are not too fond of some backend-centric workflows and tools popular among programmers, Which is okay. Diversity of tools and approaches is a good thing. Aiming for minimal code sent to client is a good thing. Hope that leaves on a better note.

by zamnos 4y ago

exodust 4y ago

> "...expecting them to write all of the code they need from scratch?" Yes! Coding is not about downloading a library and hoping it prevents you needing to code. > "writing a whole interactive animation library" You mean all 20 lines of code needed for an animated widget? Sure... let's download a 500 line animation library and use 5% of its functionality. Package ideology reminds me of Wordpress plugins. "Just use a plugin" works great until you're drowning in plugins and your server CPU is spiking beyond reason because the plugins don't all play nice together. As I said, the designer who codes may be welcomed by their engineer colleagues, who provide flexible means for them to contribute and push changes. Perhaps to a certain branch or otherwise streamline the process via Github Desktop or some less intense process, or even just sFTP to a place that can be previewed for later integration once everyone is happy the code is sound.

zamnos 4y ago
> You mean all 20 lines of code needed for an animated widget? Sure... let's download a 500 line animation library and use 5% of its functionality. Oh good, I was worried you actually understood what it's like to be new and not very good at programming, as we all were, when we first started out. That you're dragging in an unrelated rant about WordPress plugins tells me all I need to understand about where you're coming from.
- exodust 4y ago
  You didn't like my Wordpress plugin comparison!? I'll write it better. Package clutter, maintenance, integrity, updates, all those things are spinning plates. Similar to Wordpress' needy and naggy plugin ecosystem found there. New coders/designers should spin less plates at once. Raw CSS animation, then JS loops, timers and manipulations. Add a one line easing function you find somewhere such as this excellent page: spicyyoghurt.com/tools/easing-functions, and this helps fulfil the "who codes" goal more than "who installs." You're right there are libraries that will be used and useful. But don't be surprised if designer-types are not too fond of some backend-centric workflows and tools popular among programmers, Which is okay. Diversity of tools and approaches is a good thing. Aiming for minimal code sent to client is a good thing. Hope that leaves on a better note.