4 ms·

"If you didn't buy something, but rented it - for example a game on Steam or Epic Games store" I don't know about the other one, but in the Steam store I see "

"If you didn't buy something, but rented it - for example a game on Steam or Epic Games store" I don't know about the other one, but in the Steam store I see "Buy" buttons, not "Rent". "Buy <game name>" in the store page, then when you go a "Shopping Cart", where you can "Purchase" the game. To me (and to the average people, I guess) it doesn't sound as a rental service at all. I'm sure that their ToS says otherwise, but I wonder how it would fare in a court case...

stavros 4y ago
That's the GP's point, they rent you games but the language they use is "buy", and they shouldn't. They should say "rent" instead.
- flohofwoe 4y ago
  It's not quite as simple, the main reason for the 'rent' argument is DRM (e.g. most Steam games will stop working if the Steam client can't phone home for a while), but some games on Steam are actually DRM free - it's a very small minority though.
  - tommica 4y ago
    Gog is a good example of how it should be done - you buy the game, and it can be played without needing their servers to be accessible
- Closi 4y ago
  You are (usually) buying a perpetual licence which is revocable, not renting a licence, so the language is correct. Common usage of the word 'buy' also applies here - the term 'rent' would be confusing to a customer and would usually imply it being time-limited (often days).
  - stavros 4y ago
    Yeah, if I'm buying a revocable license, the language should be "renting". It's not the same as having ownership over the thing I'm licensing.
    - Closi 4y ago
      Well if you are buying something, of course the language can be "buy". And you do have ownership of the licence.
      - stavros 4y ago
        If I'm buying Bastion, the language currently on Steam isn't "buy a license to Bastion", it's "buy Bastion". That's misleading if what I'm actually buying is the license.
        Closi 4y ago
        What do you believe 'buy' means if it doesn't mean access to download the game and a digital licence to use it? Also is GameStop allowed to use the term 'buy' in their shops? Because they are often selling a licence too, it's just in a box.
        stavros 4y ago
        I believe "buy" means the same thing as in the sentence "I bought a fork". I can use the forks for as long as I want, I can sell it, I can give it away, I don't have to tell anyone how or when I use it, and if someone doesn't want me to use it any more, they can go fork themselves.
        Closi 4y ago
        I guess you can believe that, but that's a very narrow definition of "buy" and certinaly more narrow than both the dictionary definition and common usage. Under your definition you can't buy a ticket to a concert, or buy pharmacuticals if a doctor gives you a perscription, but most people would say that you could buy those things.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - aix1 4y ago
    What does it mean for a perpetual licence to be revocable? To my layman's ear the two terms sound almost contradictory.
    - eddieroger 4y ago
      It means it is your forever, unless it is taken back, the reasons for which would be described elsewhere in the contract. The language may not be lay language, but neither was the ream of paper it took to buy my house, but people still do that every day.
      - aix1 4y ago
        Digging into this a little deeper, even "irrevocable" isn't as clear-cut as one might expect. > An “irrevocable” license, on the other hand, cannot be terminated, although there is some divergence in authority regarding whether this means that the license cannot be terminated for any reason or only that the license cannot be terminated for convenience, but still may be terminated for breach. https://casetext.com/analysis/the-terms-revocable-and-irrevocable-in-license-agreements-tips-and-pitfalls https://casetext.com/analysis/the-terms-revocable-and-irrevo...
- zo1 4y ago
  It won't work because the lawyers will just argue that you are "buying" semi perpetual rights to play the game. You instead need a judge or jury or law that says: "No, fuck you, this is confusing and we don't care what's in your ToS, you will treat this as a product which has had its ownership changed in return for money".

stavros 4y ago

That's the GP's point, they rent you games but the language they use is "buy", and they shouldn't. They should say "rent" instead.

flohofwoe 4y ago
It's not quite as simple, the main reason for the 'rent' argument is DRM (e.g. most Steam games will stop working if the Steam client can't phone home for a while), but some games on Steam are actually DRM free - it's a very small minority though.
- tommica 4y ago
  Gog is a good example of how it should be done - you buy the game, and it can be played without needing their servers to be accessible
Closi 4y ago
You are (usually) buying a perpetual licence which is revocable, not renting a licence, so the language is correct. Common usage of the word 'buy' also applies here - the term 'rent' would be confusing to a customer and would usually imply it being time-limited (often days).
- stavros 4y ago
  Yeah, if I'm buying a revocable license, the language should be "renting". It's not the same as having ownership over the thing I'm licensing.
  - Closi 4y ago
    Well if you are buying something, of course the language can be "buy". And you do have ownership of the licence.
    - stavros 4y ago
      If I'm buying Bastion, the language currently on Steam isn't "buy a license to Bastion", it's "buy Bastion". That's misleading if what I'm actually buying is the license.
      - Closi 4y ago
        What do you believe 'buy' means if it doesn't mean access to download the game and a digital licence to use it? Also is GameStop allowed to use the term 'buy' in their shops? Because they are often selling a licence too, it's just in a box.
        stavros 4y ago
        I believe "buy" means the same thing as in the sentence "I bought a fork". I can use the forks for as long as I want, I can sell it, I can give it away, I don't have to tell anyone how or when I use it, and if someone doesn't want me to use it any more, they can go fork themselves.
        Closi 4y ago
        I guess you can believe that, but that's a very narrow definition of "buy" and certinaly more narrow than both the dictionary definition and common usage. Under your definition you can't buy a ticket to a concert, or buy pharmacuticals if a doctor gives you a perscription, but most people would say that you could buy those things.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aix1 4y ago
  What does it mean for a perpetual licence to be revocable? To my layman's ear the two terms sound almost contradictory.
  - eddieroger 4y ago
    It means it is your forever, unless it is taken back, the reasons for which would be described elsewhere in the contract. The language may not be lay language, but neither was the ream of paper it took to buy my house, but people still do that every day.
    - aix1 4y ago
      Digging into this a little deeper, even "irrevocable" isn't as clear-cut as one might expect. > An “irrevocable” license, on the other hand, cannot be terminated, although there is some divergence in authority regarding whether this means that the license cannot be terminated for any reason or only that the license cannot be terminated for convenience, but still may be terminated for breach. https://casetext.com/analysis/the-terms-revocable-and-irrevocable-in-license-agreements-tips-and-pitfalls https://casetext.com/analysis/the-terms-revocable-and-irrevo...
zo1 4y ago
It won't work because the lawyers will just argue that you are "buying" semi perpetual rights to play the game. You instead need a judge or jury or law that says: "No, fuck you, this is confusing and we don't care what's in your ToS, you will treat this as a product which has had its ownership changed in return for money".