4 ms·

> there will be no legal need for Apple to allow it here. The point is that since Apple had to do the work to allow sideloading at all, most if not all of the

> there will be no legal need for Apple to allow it here. The point is that since Apple had to do the work to allow sideloading at all, most if not all of the lies they came up with for why they can't allow it for everyone won't work anymore.

AmericanChopper 4y ago
I don’t believe they ever claimed that it was not possible. The position has always been that it is a compromise in security controls. The counter position to that has never been that it is not a compromise in security controls. I only hope they continue to sell devices that don’t allow it, because that’s what I would choose every time, unless that choice is taken away from me.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  Why do you think it's ever better to have a device that doesn't ever allow sideloading apps, over one that lets you, the owner, decide whether or not to allow sideloading apps?
  - jessekv 4y ago
    Not GP, and fully agree that having the option for side-loading would be a largely positive thing for users and the software community. But one counterargument goes like this: When you relax the rules, larger players will be able to leverage them against individual users. For example, Meta would be able to release MetaStore, the app with exclusive distribution rights to Meta apps. Now you need a facebook account to install whatsapp. Not sure its sustainable, however.
    - mcsniff 4y ago
      Meta can currently gate WhatsApp behind logging in with a Facebook account, but they don't; it will alienate users who use it because it doesn't require a Facebook account
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    Because these restrictions on iOS are legitimately valuable security controls. Apple decides what functionality is exposed to applications, decides who is allowed to publish applications, screens the applications they do publish, and ensures that I have the ability to consent to the permissions they are required to explicitly and in clear language request. I can safely install any application I want off the App Store, and barely put any thought into the security implications of doing so. The only thing I have to consider is whether I want to grant the publisher the permissions they’re requesting. If Apple created a methodology for circumventing this process, all of a sudden it is something that I have to worry about, and it creates an attack surface that I’d rather not have to consider. It also weakens my ability to demand these standards from publishers. If a publisher has the ability to say “this app is only available outside the walled garden”, then they may refuse to publish it via the system that is designed to ensure my interests are upheld. If the Apple curated experience happened to curtail the way I wished to use my device, then I would have more to think about. But it doesn’t, I can do everything on my iPhone that I want to do. I do have sympathy for the developers who sometimes find themselves stuck in a Kafkaesque review process. But I consider my own interests to be much more important than theirs. I have very little sympathy for the businesses who object to the revenue model. Apple’s system asserts my interests as a consumer above interests of business who frequently engage in anti-consumer behaviour. I don’t care if they have to pay to access me as a customer, this is something I’m intentionally opting into as an Apple user. The only time I do object to Apple’s curation, is when they use it in a way that I view as prioritising some other agenda above my interests. Such as when Apple pulls and app, or refuses to publish one, for reasons such as it containing “objectionable” content. I view this entirely as them subverting my interests. If that started to interfere with they way I wanted to use my device, I would start to consider an alternative. But so far it hasn’t.
    - galleywest200 4y ago
      >Because these restrictions on iOS are legitimately valuable security controls. Excellent. Let me, the owner of the device, choose how to use it. If I want it to be "less secure" that is my choice. >If Apple created a methodology for circumventing this process, all of a sudden it is something that I have to worry about Then do not use side-loaded app stores if you do not want to. Your device, your choice.

AmericanChopper 4y ago

I don’t believe they ever claimed that it was not possible. The position has always been that it is a compromise in security controls. The counter position to that has never been that it is not a compromise in security controls. I only hope they continue to sell devices that don’t allow it, because that’s what I would choose every time, unless that choice is taken away from me.

josephcsible 4y ago
Why do you think it's ever better to have a device that doesn't ever allow sideloading apps, over one that lets you, the owner, decide whether or not to allow sideloading apps?
- jessekv 4y ago
  Not GP, and fully agree that having the option for side-loading would be a largely positive thing for users and the software community. But one counterargument goes like this: When you relax the rules, larger players will be able to leverage them against individual users. For example, Meta would be able to release MetaStore, the app with exclusive distribution rights to Meta apps. Now you need a facebook account to install whatsapp. Not sure its sustainable, however.
  - mcsniff 4y ago
    Meta can currently gate WhatsApp behind logging in with a Facebook account, but they don't; it will alienate users who use it because it doesn't require a Facebook account
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  Because these restrictions on iOS are legitimately valuable security controls. Apple decides what functionality is exposed to applications, decides who is allowed to publish applications, screens the applications they do publish, and ensures that I have the ability to consent to the permissions they are required to explicitly and in clear language request. I can safely install any application I want off the App Store, and barely put any thought into the security implications of doing so. The only thing I have to consider is whether I want to grant the publisher the permissions they’re requesting. If Apple created a methodology for circumventing this process, all of a sudden it is something that I have to worry about, and it creates an attack surface that I’d rather not have to consider. It also weakens my ability to demand these standards from publishers. If a publisher has the ability to say “this app is only available outside the walled garden”, then they may refuse to publish it via the system that is designed to ensure my interests are upheld. If the Apple curated experience happened to curtail the way I wished to use my device, then I would have more to think about. But it doesn’t, I can do everything on my iPhone that I want to do. I do have sympathy for the developers who sometimes find themselves stuck in a Kafkaesque review process. But I consider my own interests to be much more important than theirs. I have very little sympathy for the businesses who object to the revenue model. Apple’s system asserts my interests as a consumer above interests of business who frequently engage in anti-consumer behaviour. I don’t care if they have to pay to access me as a customer, this is something I’m intentionally opting into as an Apple user. The only time I do object to Apple’s curation, is when they use it in a way that I view as prioritising some other agenda above my interests. Such as when Apple pulls and app, or refuses to publish one, for reasons such as it containing “objectionable” content. I view this entirely as them subverting my interests. If that started to interfere with they way I wanted to use my device, I would start to consider an alternative. But so far it hasn’t.
  - galleywest200 4y ago
    >Because these restrictions on iOS are legitimately valuable security controls. Excellent. Let me, the owner of the device, choose how to use it. If I want it to be "less secure" that is my choice. >If Apple created a methodology for circumventing this process, all of a sudden it is something that I have to worry about Then do not use side-loaded app stores if you do not want to. Your device, your choice.