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"It's for your safety and security" Words that should send a chill down every spine. It's obviously just a monopoly. They could easily have an 'allow sideloadi

"It's for your safety and security" Words that should send a chill down every spine. It's obviously just a monopoly. They could easily have an 'allow sideloading' option in the OS, and those that are happy with Apple's curation can leave it off, and everyone else can turn it on.

gary_0 4y ago
Monopoly? How about digital feudalism. "We've put ourselves in charge of protecting you, so we're going to help ourselves to a portion of everyone's gold, and make sure none of the serfs are up to anything we don't approve of."
- waboremo 4y ago
  Yes this framing makes more sense, especially since many get stuck up on the definition of a monopoly when that doesn't quite keep up with new tactics being utilized (ie keeping competition going but only superficially).
- kevingadd 4y ago
  The way they aggressively police things on their app store, including "inappropriate" subversive content like Project Gutenberg, while taking 30% of everyone's revenue definitely sells the feudalism angle.
- wruza 4y ago
  This is incorrect. Apple doesn’t force you to buy iphone, and there is plenty of alternatives. Personally, I’d like to take full control over my iphone. And create apps for myself the way I see fit. But I’m afraid that with sideloading allowed, most software vendors will go sideloading-only. That means, nobody will have any control over their app’s privilege requests, behavior and other security related things. Basically my concern is that when I need a “ruler app”, I just install it and am sure it couldn’t even be published with sms access request. Now with wild-west sideloading this restriction is over, so everyone and their dog will nag you to allow access to AB, calls, mic, etc. All dark patterns will break loose.
  - politician 4y ago
    > But I’m afraid that with sideloading allowed, most software vendors will go sideloading-only. That means, nobody will have any control over their app’s privilege requests, behavior and other security related things. There is no reason why side-loading means "not sandboxed". Apps still need to use Apple SDKs to interface with the OS, so there is still an opportunity to request permissions and for the user to deny permissions and for the OS to honor the denied permissions. Just like it works today on macOS.
    - wruza 4y ago
      …and for an app to refuse to work without this irrelevant permission. This is my exact experience with an android phone and a quest of searching a ruler app. Ended up on lifehacker and a direct link to the app. Play store only suggested the most dark patterned apps in existence.
      - malermeister 4y ago
        You should give F-Droid a try. It's only open source apps with no shady shit. I'd love something like that to come to iOS as a result of this all. Case in point: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyruler/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyru... https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlytapemeasure/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyta...
      - jeroenhd 4y ago
        Random website downloads on Android are as reliable as random website downloads on desktop platforms. Most of them aren't malware, but Google's search is quickly turning into a malware distribution network rather than a search engine. Here are two simple ruler apps you can reliably use: https://search.f-droid.org/?q=Ruler&lang=en https://search.f-droid.org/?q=Ruler&lang=en Here are a bunch more: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Ruler&rh=n%3A2350149011&crid=D5EUGCTBF8BY&sprefix=ruler%2Caps%2C179&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Ruler&rh=n%3A2350149011&crid=D5EU... There are alternative app stores exactly for this reason. Nobody wants a future where you need to download random IPA files from the internet all the time, just having the ability to run F-Droid/Amazon App Store/Epic Games Mobile on your device is enough. Honestly, I don't even get why Epic hasn't made an app store for Android yet. Mobile appsstores aren't exactly rocket science.
userbinator 4y ago
Every time someone justifies something as being for "security", the old Franklin quote comes to mind. I know this wasn't the context he intended, but it's certainly quite appropriate.

gary_0 4y ago

Monopoly? How about digital feudalism. "We've put ourselves in charge of protecting you, so we're going to help ourselves to a portion of everyone's gold, and make sure none of the serfs are up to anything we don't approve of."

waboremo 4y ago
Yes this framing makes more sense, especially since many get stuck up on the definition of a monopoly when that doesn't quite keep up with new tactics being utilized (ie keeping competition going but only superficially).
kevingadd 4y ago
The way they aggressively police things on their app store, including "inappropriate" subversive content like Project Gutenberg, while taking 30% of everyone's revenue definitely sells the feudalism angle.
wruza 4y ago
This is incorrect. Apple doesn’t force you to buy iphone, and there is plenty of alternatives. Personally, I’d like to take full control over my iphone. And create apps for myself the way I see fit. But I’m afraid that with sideloading allowed, most software vendors will go sideloading-only. That means, nobody will have any control over their app’s privilege requests, behavior and other security related things. Basically my concern is that when I need a “ruler app”, I just install it and am sure it couldn’t even be published with sms access request. Now with wild-west sideloading this restriction is over, so everyone and their dog will nag you to allow access to AB, calls, mic, etc. All dark patterns will break loose.
- politician 4y ago
  > But I’m afraid that with sideloading allowed, most software vendors will go sideloading-only. That means, nobody will have any control over their app’s privilege requests, behavior and other security related things. There is no reason why side-loading means "not sandboxed". Apps still need to use Apple SDKs to interface with the OS, so there is still an opportunity to request permissions and for the user to deny permissions and for the OS to honor the denied permissions. Just like it works today on macOS.
  - wruza 4y ago
    …and for an app to refuse to work without this irrelevant permission. This is my exact experience with an android phone and a quest of searching a ruler app. Ended up on lifehacker and a direct link to the app. Play store only suggested the most dark patterned apps in existence.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      You should give F-Droid a try. It's only open source apps with no shady shit. I'd love something like that to come to iOS as a result of this all. Case in point: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyruler/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyru... https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlytapemeasure/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyta...
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      Random website downloads on Android are as reliable as random website downloads on desktop platforms. Most of them aren't malware, but Google's search is quickly turning into a malware distribution network rather than a search engine. Here are two simple ruler apps you can reliably use: https://search.f-droid.org/?q=Ruler&lang=en https://search.f-droid.org/?q=Ruler&lang=en Here are a bunch more: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Ruler&rh=n%3A2350149011&crid=D5EUGCTBF8BY&sprefix=ruler%2Caps%2C179&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Ruler&rh=n%3A2350149011&crid=D5EU... There are alternative app stores exactly for this reason. Nobody wants a future where you need to download random IPA files from the internet all the time, just having the ability to run F-Droid/Amazon App Store/Epic Games Mobile on your device is enough. Honestly, I don't even get why Epic hasn't made an app store for Android yet. Mobile appsstores aren't exactly rocket science.

userbinator 4y ago

Every time someone justifies something as being for "security", the old Franklin quote comes to mind. I know this wasn't the context he intended, but it's certainly quite appropriate.