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System D
- kensai 3y agoJugaad. In Greek we sometimes say πατέντα.
- geocrasher 3y agoSee also ... systemd, a suite of system components for Linux, whose name is inspired by System D.
- stingraycharles 3y agoIt links to that Wikipedia entry at the top of this page.
- emmelaich 3y agoThe wikipedia entry is wrong. See my other comment.
- rurban 3y agoNot, it's not. systemd just stands for system daemon.
- paulgb 3y agoThat’s what I think too, but FWIW, geocrasher is quoting the “see also” section of the article. It doesn’t have a citation and I can’t find any other references to it, though.
- Hackbraten 3y agoPoettering more or less establishes that systemd was directly inspired by both Upstart and launchd: [0] > I hope that I managed to explain in the text above why we came up with something new, instead of building on Upstart or launchd. That, and another dozen mentions of launchd whenever it talks about socket and bus activation, strongly suggests to me that the “d” would be for daemon, just like in launchd. [0]: https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
- loeg 3y agoAlso: > Yes, it is written systemd, not system D or System D, or even SystemD. And it isn't system d either. Why? Because it's a system daemon, and under Unix/Linux those are in lower case, and get suffixed with a lower case d. And since systemd manages the system, it's called systemd. It's that simple. But then again, if all that appears too simple to you, call it (but never spell it!) System Five Hundred since D is the roman numeral for 500 (this also clarifies the relation to System V, right?). The only situation where we find it OK to use an uppercase letter in the name (but don't like it either) is if you start a sentence with systemd. On high holidays you may also spell it sÿstëmd. But then again, Système D is not an acceptable spelling and something completely different Definitely a reference to being a daemon. https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/ https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/
- qbasic_forever 3y agoThey're not wrong though, systemd has a whole boatload of related and ancillary tools beyond just its pid 1 process daemon. Stuff like journalctl, systemctl, machinectl, etc.
- pikrzyszto 3y agoFrom https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/ https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/ : > Because it's a system daemon, and under Unix/Linux those are in lower case, and get suffixed with a lower case d. And since systemd manages the system, it's called systemd. > Système D is not an acceptable spelling and something completely different (though kinda fitting). Wikipedia says that it somehow relates to Systeme D, but they don't have any good references for it.
- em-bee 3y agobut they do have a good reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#cite_note-control-center-9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#cite_note-control-cent... which eventually leads to https://web.archive.org/web/20130114034246/http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html https://web.archive.org/web/20130114034246/http://0pointer.d... System D [in French, Système D] is a shorthand term that refers back to the French word débrouillard[1]. The verb se débrouiller means "to untangle." [...] That sounds just about perfect to be honest "untangling the boot process" - yes please. so the name wasn't directly inspired by System D, but the relationship was noted and approved of.
- sva_ 3y agoAnthony Bourdain... recently started watching his show from time to time. Really a bummer that he's gone.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoThere was a documentary Roadrunner (2021). I haven't seen it. I'm curious if anyone besides him knew why he did it. Existential loneliness, lack of love, distance from family and others, and purposelessness? Mostly middle-age and older American men, skewing towards white and lower in income, are dying early by their own initiative. It might explain a fraction of drug overdose and mass murder events.
- klodolph 3y agoThere has been a lot of discussion about Bourdain’s suicide. Speculation. The stress of fame and constant travel. Drinking constantly and avoiding problems in your own life. These are possible contributing factors. I don’t think you can really know why someone did it, most of the time. I don’t think we can even assume that he knows why he did it. We do things without understanding why.
- thriftwy 3y agoКалтонай-малтонай, ширин-вырин-мордехай.
- jle17 3y agoThere is a "Système D" DIY magazine here in France, since 1924. I don't know if it is predated by the term or originated it. I remember that there is a big pile of old issues in my grandfather attic.
- llsf 3y agoSame, as a kid I liked to discover all the random things one could build step by step.
- asjfka 3y agoThat's crazy talk. Nothing actualy exist until the anglosphere takes note of its existence.
- dang 3y agoCan you please not post unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait? We're trying for something different here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Incidentally, HN has had countless wonderful and interesting threads about things from outside "the anglosphere". As HN is an English-language site one would expect those to be less common, but they are well-represented, well-loved, and welcome.
- Maursault 3y agoObligatory.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenacious_D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenacious_D
- tjchear 3y agoPaul Graham once described the quality of being formidable in a startup founder. If they say they'll get something done in 2 weeks, they'll get it done in 2 weeks, even if poorly done. Formidable founders stand the greatest chance at succeeding. System D certainly reminds me of that.
- 5cott0 3y ago"System D, arguably, reached its heyday in the Victorian-era railway hotels, where the menus were huge and it was not unusual for an extra two hundred guests to show up wanting, say, the Fricasse of Lobster Thermidor — for which only fifty portions were available. Suddenly, Thermidor for fifty was transformed into Thermidor for two hundred. Don't ask how. You don't want to know."
- EntrePrescott 3y agofun fact: Thermidor - after which Sauce Thermidor and derived dishes like Lobster Themidor are named, is a month in the French Republican Calendar, specifically: the second month of summer, going approx. from mid-July to mid-August.
- cdot2 3y agoEven more fun fact. "Thermidor" as well as the other months on the Republican Calendar don't have any root word. They were made up whole cloth and intended to sound like Greek or Latin.
- arnmPZxRu4 3y agoAutumn: Vendémiaire (from French vendange, derived from Latin vindemia, "vintage"), starting 22, 23, or 24 September Brumaire (from French brume, "mist", from Latin brūma, "winter solstice; winter; winter cold"), starting 22, 23, or 24 October Frimaire (from French frimas, "frost"), starting 21, 22, or 23 November Winter: Nivôse (from Latin nivosus, "snowy"), starting 21, 22, or 23 December Pluviôse (from French pluvieux, derived from Latin pluvius, "rainy"), starting 20, 21, or 22 January Ventôse (from French venteux, derived from Latin ventosus, "windy"), starting 19, 20, or 21 February Spring: Germinal (from French germination), starting 20 or 21 March Floréal (from French fleur, derived from Latin flos, "flower"), starting 20 or 21 April Prairial (from French prairie, "meadow"), starting 20 or 21 May Summer: Messidor (from Latin messis, "harvest"), starting 19 or 20 June Thermidor (or Fervidor*) (from Greek thermon, "summer heat"), starting 19 or 20 July Fructidor (from Latin fructus, "fruit"), starting 18 or 19 August ??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_calendar
- apomekhanes 3y agoReminds me of Pratchett and the adaptability of the Quirmians when muddy old boots were substituted for the original ingredients ... "... let's see ... Mousse de la Boue dans un Panier de la Pâte de Chaussures ..." (... I don't now if this was simply Pratchett's standard cynicism / semi-jaundiced take on humanity, as applied in a standard enough way to French restaurants, or more directly related. Pratchett did have an awfully wide range of knowledge and constantly expanded that knowledge with research while writing.)
- kergonath 3y ago> I don't now if this was simply Pratchett's standard cynicism / semi-jaundiced take on humanity It’s Pratchett, so most probably a bit of each. Plus a healthy dose of piss taking. As a side note, I would not use “cynicism” for Pratchett. Whilst there is some of it, cynicism has become associated with mindless reactionary contrarianism, which is very, very far from Pratchett’s general optimism.
- Dwedit 3y agoAlso not a variant of the D programming language meant for systems programming.
- phendrenad2 3y agoObscure topics like this often have bizarre wikipedia pages with only a few contributors. The articles are usually a few paragraphs, each touching on wildly different barely-related topics that connect to the main topic. Here's one from a few years back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17591942 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17591942 This article is also one of them.
- ethbr0 3y agoThis is what all of Wikipedia used to be like, until the formalism made the trains run on time. Not sure which version I like better, tbh.
- kazinator 3y agoVaguely related: 3K: kitanai, kiken, kitsui. (dirty, dangerous, demanding). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty,_dangerous_and_demeaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty,_dangerous_and_demeaning
- jet_32951 3y agoBrilliant. Apart from Freeling's "The Kitchen Book / The Cook Book" système D appears throughout French culture including the record "Système D" by Les Rita Mitsouko. It stands there encouraging those who get it to understand and overcome despite one's being knee-deep in sewage.
- notfed 3y ago> In recent literature on the informal economy, System D is the growing share of the world's economy which makes up the underground economy... This just seems like word salad to me. What am I missing?
- pazimzadeh 3y agoAll of the 'underground' things desperate people do to stay alive, i.e. prostitution
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kortilla 3y agoYou mean “e.g.”, not “i.e.”. Prostitution is not the only thing people do outside of the purview of the government for income. A more mundane example is working for a restaurant under the table.
- sgtnoodle 3y agoI liked their version better. It was more facetious.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- clbrmbr 3y agoNow I finally know what my Swiss mother-in-law says when the normal tablecloth is dirty and we need to improvise. I thought “oh it’s like Plan B”, but never got why it’s D…. Now I get that D is a euphemism for “out of the shit” (démerde).
- jet_32951 3y agoCould be but my understanding is the D stands for débrouiller (se débrouiller = take oneself out of the fog). Kind of like the American "National Awareness Day" where people are encouraged to extract their heads and take note of the people in their surroundings.
- jeffrallen 3y agoI learned the term while learning french, working for Médecins sans Frontières Suisse. It was most definitely translated as démerde, not débrouiller.
- crubier 3y agoI'm french, and both "se débrouiller" and "se démerder" mean exactly the same thing. "se démerder" is just more familiar/foul.
- eric-burel 3y agoI would mostly use the familiar version if someone or an organization explicitly created the situation, like I must go to the post office but it's only open during my work hour, and closed the only day I can take an hour off. And System D is really débrouille to me
- layer8 3y ago(Se) débrouiller really means “to get by”/“to make do”/“to cope”/“to manage (be able to handle)”. Système D refers to managing a situation with a make-shift or unconventional solution.
- 3y ago
- polpo 3y agoAbout 10 years ago I applied for a software engineering job at a startup that had the title “System D Engineer.” I thought it was the perfect distillation of what it’s like being an engineer at an early stage startup. I got the offer and I probably should have taken it. It would have been interesting and the startup had a successful exit!
- eric-burel 3y agoI worked with an engineer that did an internship in "low-tech innovations", he basically designed system D solution in Brazil, I think to irrigate fields or smth alike Very very cool stuff
- realworldperson 3y ago[dead]
- jszymborski 3y agoI might be dense, but I really have little idea of what System D _actually_ is in practice after reading this. Can anyone ELI5 what it is in practice? What are some of the ideas that allows one to débrouiller, etc... ?
- sfrigon 3y agoWell I was raised in French and my dad would use this expression from time to time. (I didn't read the whole wiki page, I'm just answering based on my experience) It meant "being resourceful" & ingenious. Don't always expect someone else to help you in order to achieve something, or don't just give up at the first problem you encounter. e.g. Something is heavy to lift and you expected someone stronger to be there to help you. Well you can borrow a lift, you can call someone else and lift it together, try to come up with some kind of lever, etc Another example: Don't wait for someone to explain something you don't understand, when you could be looking it up by yourself on the internet (sorry that one was an easy joke ;) )
- mojomark 3y agoMy read from the page was that this term is coupled with a temporal component - the need to think effectively on your feet. Rapidly. Unfortunately, that's not me. I'm a sit and ruminate kind of person. Oh well, no System D for me.
- NeutralForest 3y agoI speak French and it's typically used in that context indeed.
- moffkalast 3y agoI wonder if systemd in Linux was named after this, given that it's a collection of services to help you do things, even 3rd party or ad hoc ones made by yourself.
- Hackbraten 3y agoUnlikely, given that systemd started out as a remake of Upstart and Apple’s launchd, or launch daemon. [0] The article says the authors of systemd initially considered building upon either but ultimately decided to start from scratch for technical reasons. [0]: https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
- acyou 3y agoI read this as "Get er done", ok in food service, maybe comes with long term consequences elsewhere.
- godelski 3y agoNot to be confused with systemd[0], a system and service manager for Linux. Which I was kinda surprised to see that the link wasn't about this and almost didn't click on it because I saw the source was wikipedia. Dang, Maybe we can edit the title? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd
- Volt 3y agoThat's obviously why it was posted.
- every 3y agoAnyone who has ever worked on the production end of Food & Beverage, like Bourdain, knows EXACTLY what Système D entails...
- mattl 3y agoWaiting for Dr. Fegg to comment..
- Doctor_Fegg 3y agoHa! (Background: my domain name for 24 years has been systemed.net, my github handle is systemed, etc. All stems from choosing Système D as a demogroup name on the Amstrad CPC back in the 90s, partly because it’s the very essence of demo coding on a constrained machine like the CPC, but also as a riff on the French groups which were called things like Logon System, AST System etc.)
- yashap 3y agoOnly vaguely related, but mentioned in the article: “In Down and Out in Paris and London,[6] George Orwell described the term débrouillard as something the lowest-level kitchen workers, the plongeurs, wanted to be called, indicating that they were people who would get the job done, no matter what.” Orwell’s best work IMO, if you haven’t read it you should.
- nmz 3y agoFrom dé- + merde + -er, literally “to remove oneself from the shit”.
- iamnotsure 3y agoPerhaps related to "kombinować" in Polish, which somewhat bad connotations.
- riffraff 3y agoOh, this is what goes in Italian as "l'arte di arrangiarsi" (the art of hacking it, or something like that). Tho it might lack the urgency factor. It's a very old concept, everything old is new again, I guess.
- kergonath 3y ago> Oh, this is what goes in Italian as "l'arte di arrangiarsi" Yeah, very similar concept. > It's a very old concept, everything old is new again Nobody said it was new, though… Or exclusively French, although the French name is marginally better known.
- thih9 3y agoSo: responding to difficulties by taking shortcuts, disregarding regulations, sometimes cheating, all to achieve your goal or a semblance of it. Hustle?
- eric-burel 3y agoHustle would be a possible translation but in my understanding only if your System D involve something illegal or is meant to generate money (eg take the bus without paying to get to your job before getting your first pay). System D is broader than that.
- thih9 3y agoCan you give an example of System D that is not related to generating money or something illegal? The examples I’ve seen were mostly about selling one kind of food as another, more expensive. E.g.: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35671220 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35671220 > System D, arguably, reached its heyday in the Victorian-era railway hotels, where the menus were huge and it was not unusual for an extra two hundred guests to show up wanting, say, the Fricasse of Lobster Thermidor — for which only fifty portions were available. Suddenly, Thermidor for fifty was transformed into Thermidor for two hundred. Don't ask how. You don't want to know.
- eric-burel 3y agoCould be organizational, like there's a transport strike so you create a Google sheet based carpooling system that you share with colleagues coupled with a facebook page where each person that goes to the station shares up to date info and you involve your grandma that happens to own a van in the process. Look for BlaBlaCar history it's basically that, carpooling is specifically popular in France.
- eric-burel 3y agoWhen the system D solution is physical and ridiculously complicated we may also call the person a McGyver
- cies 3y agoFrom the wikipedia page: > Not to be confused with systemd. Lol.
- eric-burel 3y agoThe "Shameless" series or "The pursuit of Happyness" have strong system D vibes for instance
- jll29 3y ago> ...a synonym of "to hack it" in English So HN might as well be called "System D News" in an alternate universe...